Vtec92Civic

Tonight we are making an attempt to take out my DSM 450's and slap in some saturated Lucas 440cc Injectors . . . the only problem is after we removed the DSM Injectors from the intake manifold and tried to slip in the Lucas 440's they don't fit!

They fit into the stock fuel rail, but they just don't seat as good as the DSM 450's did . . . what could be the problem? I know many people have used these injectors. I was actually told when I baught them that they were Siemens Deka Injectors, but when I did some research and enterd the #'s on the injectors it said:

Delphi/Lucas Injectors . . . . here is a picture of what they look like:



here is all the information I found:


Part Number Delphi 01D030B (Lucas old 5208009, Lucas New 621031)
Static Flow Rate: 42.29 lb/hr @ 43.5PSI (300kPa) or 320gm/min
Dynamic Flow Rate: 9.96 gm/pulse - 2.5ms pulse width and 10ms repetition rate
Coil Resistance: 15.9 Ohms / High Impedance / High-Z (No ECM driver modifications required)
Additional Information:

Top feed disc injectors use a small disc with six holes around its circumference. The disc rests on a short chimney that surrounds a metering hole. As the disc is raised off the chimney by magnetic force, fuel flows through the holes in the disc, over the walls of the chimney, and out the metering hole to form a full, finely atomized cone.

Performance advantages over pintle injectors (i.e. Ford / Bosch & Accel types) as listed by Delphi:
• The flat mating surface ensures that no excess fuel is present to evaporate and therefore, no deposits or clogging can occur.
• Compatible with alternative fuels (i.e. Methanol)
• Longer service life
• High-speed disc action allows wider dynamic flow range for improved idling
• Quieter operation
• Revolutionary disc design resists build up deposits which can affect fuel flow.
• No Fuel leakage for quicker starts


I will be standing by for a bit to see if anyone can help me out . . . it's like 10pm out here in hawaii, and we need some help!

Thanks in advance everyone!

calvinPGMFI

What doesn't fit. I know with dsm u have to smack the innjector hard in to the stock fuel rail. And aslo the o-rings must be made bigger

Vtec92Civic

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by calvinPGMFI &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">What doesn't fit. I know with dsm u have to smack the innjector hard in to the stock fuel rail. And aslo the o-rings must be made bigger</TD></TR></TABLE>

the new Lucas 440cc Injectors don't fit . . . . the tip seems to be a little to big. Comparing the 440 Tip to the DSM 450 tip . . . the DSM's tip sits in the hole in the intake manifold, but the 440's do not sit in that hole, it sits outside of the hole . . . and I am not sure if that is normal or not, and if it will leak fuel or not.

All and All the dsm's fit, but they are coming out so I can use saturated injectors with my enw setup, but the saturated injectors are not fitting for some odd reason.

lazerus

you'll probably have to end up grinding the holes out, and using O-rings to fit.

Vtec92Civic

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by lazerus &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">you'll probably have to end up grinding the holes out, and using O-rings to fit.</TD></TR></TABLE>

what do you think about seating the injectors over the hole . . . putting the fuel rail on, and tightening it down . . . you think it will leak fuel?

Vtec92Civic

bump

ATS*Mark

rc injectors dont go perfectly into the hole , try it and see if it leaks

PM-Performance

they look the same as my Siemens dekas. i needed to use stock o rings and take a dremel and shave down the tops to fit into the rail

Vtec92Civic

they fit in the rail just fine, they just don't sit right in the intake manifold injector holes . . . see how the 2 tips are different? The DSM Slides in more to make a snug leak proof fit, as where these other injectors don't slide in much if any . . . they kinda sit over the hole.

5STAR3

i just got done installing my RC550's and they didnt fit. all you have to do is grind out the inside until the o-ring slides on with out any force, then they will set down into the IM nicley and fit well


Modified by envision2teg at 2:52 AM 4/8/2004

PM-Performance

ithought you said the rail sorry.
yes take like a sandpaper bit on a dremel and open up the injector seals quite a bit, that will do the trick

*Boostwerks*

I hate disc injectors...this is why...



Bill from Zdyne...

"No. Laser spray injectors may be suitable for race-only situations (constant high RPMs and intake velocity), but this does not validate their use on street driven cars.
They sell those injectors for two reasons:
1. That is what everyone is buying, and what they are selling (a catch 22)
2. They are easily available with many high flow rates, and hold up well at extreme fuel pressures."

Quad-Damag

^^ is that ture im about to put them on my car in like a week or 2, with my hondata on my dayily driven street race?

Lucus 440 CC"s

ATS*Mark

so many people run rc's on the street with no problems i wouldnt worry about it , i havent had a problem with my rc's yet

5STAR3

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Hella_JDM &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">so many people run rc's on the street with no problems i wouldnt worry about it , i havent had a problem with my rc's yet</TD></TR></TABLE>

RC's dont spray like that....
they spray like this

ATS*Mark

rc injectors are lucas blanks that are balanced and bluprinted by RC..... so if thats how lucas are than rc's should be the same .

5STAR3

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Hella_JDM &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">rc injectors are lucas blanks that are balanced and bluprinted by RC..... so if thats how lucas are than rc's should be the same .</TD></TR></TABLE>

fir enough..... i guess all im saying is that RC's dont have a "lazer" spray pattern

ATS*Mark

good to go , im happy with my rc's

ATS*Mark

i dont think my rc's have an o ring like that on the bottom , on the top where they go into the rail do but not the bottom , that might be your problem

ATS*Mark

its wierd too cause those lucas look exactly like my rc's and i didnt have to do anything to get them to fit......

*Boostwerks*

RC's are a pintle style injector not a disc style like the lucas.

Disc styles spray like...well you see the pic. Its hard for fuel to atomize when it comes out in a stream.

ATS*Mark

i agree , so i guess there is an advantage to buying the RC's over the lucas . glad i did.

calvinPGMFI

I have heard u have to put a small o rin have the size like 4 mm.
Then put the innjector. The injector will sit on top.
Rc has to be installed like that have written in the manual.

My local tuner shop told me.

Calvin

ATS*Mark

umm no