LS vtec turbo build,custom valve train,need advice.
12-12-2005, 04:02 PM
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LS vtec turbo build,custom valve train,need advice.
ok..im on my second forced induction build..this time with LS vtec turbo...this is the setup i wanted to run..i just need to know,if it will be safe (valve overlap,valve/piston clearance,idle,etc)
B16A head
Race/street Port job
3 angle valve job
Crower or skunk 2 stage 1 N/A cams or 404 cams (depending on lift/duration comparison)
Crower 1mm oversized intake/exhaust valves
Dual valve springs
retainers
Edlebrock Victor X manifold
70mm tb
the main part im worried about..is the oversized valves..i dont see too many people going with bigger valves in their builds..i wanted to try it,to see if i could pull more top end out of my head...but i dont know if i should go with .5mm 1mm,or leave the valves OEM spec? also i dont know if they will work well with my pistons (JE 9.5:1)...does anyone know off hand,how well my setup would work,or similiar setups,that have failed/succeeded? any help would be greatly appreciated.
B16A head
Race/street Port job
3 angle valve job
Crower or skunk 2 stage 1 N/A cams or 404 cams (depending on lift/duration comparison)
Crower 1mm oversized intake/exhaust valves
Dual valve springs
retainers
Edlebrock Victor X manifold
70mm tb
the main part im worried about..is the oversized valves..i dont see too many people going with bigger valves in their builds..i wanted to try it,to see if i could pull more top end out of my head...but i dont know if i should go with .5mm 1mm,or leave the valves OEM spec? also i dont know if they will work well with my pistons (JE 9.5:1)...does anyone know off hand,how well my setup would work,or similiar setups,that have failed/succeeded? any help would be greatly appreciated.
12-12-2005, 04:10 PM
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Re: LS vtec turbo build,custom valve train,need advice. (DC4cedInducted)
Bump for the original poster... i am running almost the same identical setup except 84mm je 9:1:1 and itr cams
please can someone find us an answer.
please can someone find us an answer.
12-12-2005, 04:55 PM
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Re: LS vtec turbo build,custom valve train,need advice. (Importordomestic)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Importordomestic »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Bump for the original poster... i am running almost the same identical setup except 84mm je 9:1:1 and itr cams
please can someone find us an answer. </TD></TR></TABLE>
im glad im not the only one trying something like this..i mean ive tried to do research on it..but i havent really seen anyone go all out on their vtec head,besides cams,and headwork...im trying to figure out how big of a role will oversized valves play in the cfms,flow capabilities,and top end power of the head,combined with the bigger TB,intake manifold,and cams.
please can someone find us an answer.
</TD></TR></TABLE>im glad im not the only one trying something like this..i mean ive tried to do research on it..but i havent really seen anyone go all out on their vtec head,besides cams,and headwork...im trying to figure out how big of a role will oversized valves play in the cfms,flow capabilities,and top end power of the head,combined with the bigger TB,intake manifold,and cams.
12-12-2005, 05:33 PM
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Re: LS vtec turbo build,custom valve train,need advice. (DC4cedInducted)
yeah i just got my motor back from ERL friday. Now im off to headwork. Have you decided on what angles you want the valve seats to have? stock angles are
30-45-60 - from what i read that you can net higher flows with 30-45-55 - then again i have never personally flowbenched a head. have you considered backcutting the valve head or swirl polish?
maybe this article can help
http://www.team-integra.net/se...D=353
My big concern with bigger valves and a high lift cam like the ITR cams with big overlap is midrange power and TQ, while im out of boost/ or in boost for that matter.. My car will be a daily driver, so i am really concerned with midrange power. i wonder what the engine will do with .5mm oversized valves vs 1mm. or any combination of: .5 ex and 1m intake or vise versa.
This is the real reason im interested in your thread, not that i want to thread jack you, its just that you have the identical setup as me. So I really want us both to get a real educated answer.
Jese we need answers BUMP to the top
30-45-60 - from what i read that you can net higher flows with 30-45-55 - then again i have never personally flowbenched a head. have you considered backcutting the valve head or swirl polish?
maybe this article can help
http://www.team-integra.net/se...D=353
My big concern with bigger valves and a high lift cam like the ITR cams with big overlap is midrange power and TQ, while im out of boost/ or in boost for that matter.. My car will be a daily driver, so i am really concerned with midrange power. i wonder what the engine will do with .5mm oversized valves vs 1mm. or any combination of: .5 ex and 1m intake or vise versa.
This is the real reason im interested in your thread, not that i want to thread jack you, its just that you have the identical setup as me. So I really want us both to get a real educated answer.
Jese we need answers BUMP to the top
12-12-2005, 05:45 PM
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Re: LS vtec turbo build,custom valve train,need advice. (Importordomestic)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Importordomestic »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">yeah i just got my motor back from ERL friday. Now im off to headwork. Have you decided on what angles you want the valve seats to have? stock angles are
30-45-60 - from what i read that you can net higher flows with 30-45-55 - then again i have never personally flowbenched a head. have you considered backcutting the valve head or swirl polish?
maybe this article can help
http://www.team-integra.net/se...D=353
My big concern with bigger valves and a high lift cam like the ITR cams with big overlap is midrange power and TQ, while im out of boost/ or in boost for that matter.. My car will be a daily driver, so i am really concerned with midrange power. i wonder what the engine will do with .5mm oversized valves vs 1mm. or any combination of: .5 ex and 1m intake or vise versa.
This is the real reason im interested in your thread, not that i want to thread jack you, its just that you have the identical setup as me. So I really want us both to get a real educated answer.
Jese we need answers BUMP to the top </TD></TR></TABLE>
i was thinking 30-45-55 as well,ive seen similiar setups run that,and get decent gains from it.
you are worried about the same thing i am...how the engine will fair with the oversized valves..and if overlap will become an even bigger problem with larger valves...im pretty sure theres a con,but a BIG pro to this whole situation.
30-45-60 - from what i read that you can net higher flows with 30-45-55 - then again i have never personally flowbenched a head. have you considered backcutting the valve head or swirl polish?
maybe this article can help
http://www.team-integra.net/se...D=353
My big concern with bigger valves and a high lift cam like the ITR cams with big overlap is midrange power and TQ, while im out of boost/ or in boost for that matter.. My car will be a daily driver, so i am really concerned with midrange power. i wonder what the engine will do with .5mm oversized valves vs 1mm. or any combination of: .5 ex and 1m intake or vise versa.
This is the real reason im interested in your thread, not that i want to thread jack you, its just that you have the identical setup as me. So I really want us both to get a real educated answer.
Jese we need answers BUMP to the top
</TD></TR></TABLE>i was thinking 30-45-55 as well,ive seen similiar setups run that,and get decent gains from it.
you are worried about the same thing i am...how the engine will fair with the oversized valves..and if overlap will become an even bigger problem with larger valves...im pretty sure theres a con,but a BIG pro to this whole situation.
12-12-2005, 06:30 PM
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Re: LS vtec turbo build,custom valve train,need advice. (DC4cedInducted)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DC4cedInducted »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i was thinking 30-45-55 as well,ive seen similiar setups run that,and get decent gains from it.
you are worried about the same thing i am...how the engine will fair with the oversized valves..and if overlap will become an even bigger problem with larger valves...im pretty sure theres a con,but a BIG pro to this whole situation.</TD></TR></TABLE>
AGREED!!!
Bump for some more input !
come on this could really turn int a good tech thread.
you are worried about the same thing i am...how the engine will fair with the oversized valves..and if overlap will become an even bigger problem with larger valves...im pretty sure theres a con,but a BIG pro to this whole situation.</TD></TR></TABLE>
AGREED!!!
Bump for some more input !
come on this could really turn int a good tech thread.
12-12-2005, 07:12 PM
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Re: LS vtec turbo build,custom valve train,need advice. (Importordomestic)
I have been thinking. The valves just let the engine breath. ok here is my theory:
our engines will always have a static compression ratio of 9:5:1 or 9:1:1 no matter how mush boost we will always have that CR. at some point in caming the engine we can actually "overcam it" - like the engine is breathing more air and fuel than the engine can compress and combust per engine cycle. so if we found a cam that we liked.
ex: CTR cams or ITR cams the head will breath according to there cam profile. so if this is the case we could actually give the cam more efficiency of its duration and lift if we oversized the valves. - if this is true this would work with any cam- bigger valves might almost give a higher efficiency of any cam that they were pared with up to a point.
So with that in consideration - if we chose a cam profile that met our needs for midrange tq and power on the primary and secondary lobes - and a really aggressive vtev lobe we could see higher gain throught th e powerband.
then again its just a theory.....
anyone have anything to say?
our engines will always have a static compression ratio of 9:5:1 or 9:1:1 no matter how mush boost we will always have that CR. at some point in caming the engine we can actually "overcam it" - like the engine is breathing more air and fuel than the engine can compress and combust per engine cycle. so if we found a cam that we liked.
ex: CTR cams or ITR cams the head will breath according to there cam profile. so if this is the case we could actually give the cam more efficiency of its duration and lift if we oversized the valves. - if this is true this would work with any cam- bigger valves might almost give a higher efficiency of any cam that they were pared with up to a point.
So with that in consideration - if we chose a cam profile that met our needs for midrange tq and power on the primary and secondary lobes - and a really aggressive vtev lobe we could see higher gain throught th e powerband.
then again its just a theory.....
anyone have anything to say?
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