LS head vs GSR head
01-31-2006, 07:35 PM
#1
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LS head vs GSR head
I know the LS head flow like crap compared to the GSR or B16 but what about after head work (porting, valves, cams) how much of a difference is it then?
01-31-2006, 10:03 PM
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Re: LS head vs GSR head (hks85)
k now. the ls head work would be hard to tune then the gsr head. thats all your really need to know. you would need somone that knows how to do it better the professional to have it be better then a gsr head work. wat ever your doing, stick with the gsr head work. or even better b16 head job. 
01-31-2006, 11:31 PM
#6
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I definitely doubt you'll make 500whp on a straight ls unless you're running really high boost, big cams, and a very large turbo. If you spending the $ on that kind of power I would definitely invest in a vtec head. Trust me, you will also make your goal and much lower boost pressures. The ports/vtec secondary lobes will give you much more top end and the ability to carry the torque curve much higher. I've seen as little as 20-22psi to reach 500whp on built ls/vtecs.....you be the judge.
My 2 cents
Ryan
My 2 cents
Ryan
02-01-2006, 03:42 AM
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Re: (Teglove2)
I was told by a very good source (head porter) that a fully ported LS head is just barely if any better than a stock B series head! I would go vtec if at all possible!
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02-01-2006, 04:26 AM
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Re: (Teglove2)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Teglove2 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I definitely doubt you'll make 500whp on a straight ls unless you're running really high boost, big cams, and a very large turbo. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Well, there's a post about BW turbos showing a bone stock LS head (stock cams) making ~550 off of a T67 and an S200. What psi it happens at, as long as it occurs on the compressor's map, is irrelevant. Why are you people so obsessed with boost #?? As far as very large turbo.... yes... yes... it requires a very large turbo to hit 500, even if you have an overpriced OMG VTEC head.
PS - record for stock LS head (stock cams) on a built 2.0 bottom end is a lot higher than 550. Increment the leftmost digit by more than 1... see if you can guess.
Well, there's a post about BW turbos showing a bone stock LS head (stock cams) making ~550 off of a T67 and an S200. What psi it happens at, as long as it occurs on the compressor's map, is irrelevant. Why are you people so obsessed with boost #?? As far as very large turbo.... yes... yes... it requires a very large turbo to hit 500, even if you have an overpriced OMG VTEC head.
PS - record for stock LS head (stock cams) on a built 2.0 bottom end is a lot higher than 550. Increment the leftmost digit by more than 1... see if you can guess.
02-01-2006, 04:52 AM
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Re: (J. Davis)
we have a few people in town making good power with LS heads, many of them are unported even. just a good set of valves and valvesprings, and good size T3/T4 will make over 450whp and 350wtq. 
02-01-2006, 08:37 AM
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Re: (T70 civic)
well i agree to all that. in one of my HCI magz. theres a civic hatch thats fully built ls meaning from cams to rod bolts, with a turbonetics t3/t4 turbo at 10:1 cr, 9psi of boost making 378whp-265lb-ft tq. he has bullfrog cams btw. running a s200 ecu. he also had a pnp head, 7 angle valve job.
now tell me if thats good or bad. 9 pounds of boost is sorta low for those # but thats wat it said. i guess the cams helped.
now tell me if thats good or bad. 9 pounds of boost is sorta low for those # but thats wat it said. i guess the cams helped.
02-01-2006, 09:25 AM
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Re: (saver)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by saver »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">well i agree to all that. in one of my HCI magz. theres a civic hatch thats fully built ls meaning from cams to rod bolts, with a turbonetics t3/t4 turbo at 10:1 cr, 9psi of boost making 378whp-265lb-ft tq. he has bullfrog cams btw. running a s200 ecu. he also had a pnp head, 7 angle valve job.
now tell me if thats good or bad. 9 pounds of boost is sorta low for those # but thats wat it said. i guess the cams helped.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I bet with a CR like that, the power band wouldn't be half bad even before the boost comes up.
Im only looking to make 300 or so to the wheels, but the broader the 300 the better.
now tell me if thats good or bad. 9 pounds of boost is sorta low for those # but thats wat it said. i guess the cams helped.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I bet with a CR like that, the power band wouldn't be half bad even before the boost comes up.
Im only looking to make 300 or so to the wheels, but the broader the 300 the better.
02-01-2006, 11:04 AM
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Re: (hks85)
if you are sleeving ur ls to 2.0 liter, get a p8r head and port that head.
i choose to port and polish my ls head and made good power on an allmotor set up. and now its turbo'd and i dont regret going vtec
i choose to port and polish my ls head and made good power on an allmotor set up. and now its turbo'd and i dont regret going vtec
02-01-2006, 11:12 AM
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Re: (J. Davis)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by J. Davis »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Well, there's a post about BW turbos showing a bone stock LS head (stock cams) making ~550 off of a T67 and an S200. What psi it happens at, as long as it occurs on the compressor's map, is irrelevant. Why are you people so obsessed with boost #?? As far as very large turbo.... yes... yes... it requires a very large turbo to hit 500, even if you have an overpriced OMG VTEC head.
PS - record for stock LS head (stock cams) on a built 2.0 bottom end is a lot higher than 550. Increment the leftmost digit by more than 1... see if you can guess.</TD></TR></TABLE>
That was done with a stock GSR head, not an LS head.
http://www.dynotuneusa.com/turbocomparo
There's no way an LS head with stock cams would hold torque like that to 8600 RPM's.
People are making a big stink over head flow, it really isn't that huge of a deal when you're talking about a setup being finally limited by the output of your turbo, not the cylinder head, but I'll take the VTEC head any day of the week for the better valvetrain setup.
Well, there's a post about BW turbos showing a bone stock LS head (stock cams) making ~550 off of a T67 and an S200. What psi it happens at, as long as it occurs on the compressor's map, is irrelevant. Why are you people so obsessed with boost #?? As far as very large turbo.... yes... yes... it requires a very large turbo to hit 500, even if you have an overpriced OMG VTEC head.
PS - record for stock LS head (stock cams) on a built 2.0 bottom end is a lot higher than 550. Increment the leftmost digit by more than 1... see if you can guess.</TD></TR></TABLE>
That was done with a stock GSR head, not an LS head.
http://www.dynotuneusa.com/turbocomparo
There's no way an LS head with stock cams would hold torque like that to 8600 RPM's.
People are making a big stink over head flow, it really isn't that huge of a deal when you're talking about a setup being finally limited by the output of your turbo, not the cylinder head, but I'll take the VTEC head any day of the week for the better valvetrain setup.
02-01-2006, 11:35 AM
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Re: (tokes1320)
Well for the price of a vtec head why not just do it.. Any porting work on an ls head is going to cost more than the price of a b16/gsr head anyway..
02-01-2006, 11:48 AM
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Re: (tokes1320)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tokes1320 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
That was done with a stock GSR head, not an LS head.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Looks like I got owned on reading comprehension.
That was done with a stock GSR head, not an LS head.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Looks like I got owned on reading comprehension.
02-01-2006, 02:54 PM
#16
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Re: (tgreaves)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tgreaves »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Well for the price of a vtec head why not just do it.. Any porting work on an ls head is going to cost more than the price of a b16/gsr head anyway..</TD></TR></TABLE>
agreed.
agreed.
02-01-2006, 03:23 PM
#17
Re: (H23 Power)
some people like to be different. if someone wants to do a straight LS why does everyone gotta bring up the "omg vtec is better!!!11!one" he asked if your can make an LS flow decent with head work not if a vtec head is better, why not let people with experience answer and not tell them to get a vtec head cause it flows better.
to try to answer your question, if you can get an LS head to flow at least as well as a stock B-VTEC head then with the right cams it can make some good power. stock B-VTEC heads can support over 600HP.
to try to answer your question, if you can get an LS head to flow at least as well as a stock B-VTEC head then with the right cams it can make some good power. stock B-VTEC heads can support over 600HP.
02-01-2006, 03:37 PM
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Re: (CoreyR)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by J. Davis »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I don't know what is more worthless - the question, or the answer?
</TD></TR></TABLE>
HAHA...I was thinking the same
Seriously though, look at a price comparison. By the time you port and polish an LS head along with putting springs/retainers to rev higher to be like the V-TEC head you have already spent more money then just buying a VTEC head. Plus you have the magical almighty powers of VTAK for a better powerband. If you want <400whp then don't worry about anything just boost away on a stock LS head otherwise LS/VTEC will net some SERIOUS gains for not a lot of cash
</TD></TR></TABLE>
HAHA...I was thinking the same
Seriously though, look at a price comparison. By the time you port and polish an LS head along with putting springs/retainers to rev higher to be like the V-TEC head you have already spent more money then just buying a VTEC head. Plus you have the magical almighty powers of VTAK
for a better powerband. If you want <400whp then don't worry about anything just boost away on a stock LS head otherwise LS/VTEC will net some SERIOUS gains for not a lot of cash
02-01-2006, 09:42 PM
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Re: (adseguy)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by adseguy »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
If you want <400whp then don't worry about anything just boost away on a stock LS head otherwise LS/VTEC will net some SERIOUS gains for not a lot of cash</TD></TR></TABLE>
Actually, 400 whp is the "limit" for a D16 on the popular T04E compressors with ubiquitous GM 3 bar MAP. You can go a bit higher than that on LS, although after 350-380 you typically need racegas, water injection, or some pimpshit form of thermal management.
If you want <400whp then don't worry about anything just boost away on a stock LS head otherwise LS/VTEC will net some SERIOUS gains for not a lot of cash</TD></TR></TABLE>
Actually, 400 whp is the "limit" for a D16 on the popular T04E compressors with ubiquitous GM 3 bar MAP. You can go a bit higher than that on LS, although after 350-380 you typically need racegas, water injection, or some pimpshit form of thermal management.
02-01-2006, 09:50 PM
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Re: (J. Davis)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by J. Davis »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Actually, 400 whp is the "limit" for a D16 on the popular T04E compressors with ubiquitous GM 3 bar MAP. You can go a bit higher than that on LS, although after 350-380 you typically need racegas, water injection, or some pimpshit form of thermal management.</TD></TR></TABLE>
that i could agree to i guess.
Actually, 400 whp is the "limit" for a D16 on the popular T04E compressors with ubiquitous GM 3 bar MAP. You can go a bit higher than that on LS, although after 350-380 you typically need racegas, water injection, or some pimpshit form of thermal management.</TD></TR></TABLE>
that i could agree to i guess.
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