which one would you do and why? assume they are both stock..

not looking to do ls/vtec becuause i think its not going to be very reliable. althugh i have all the parts except the head to do it.

btw, it will be a daily

 

depends on what you want out of the car.

is it going to be a drag car, daily grinder, track?

ls will have more torque, a smother powerband and usually can handle more boost with the same tune

b16 is higher revving and assuming you use the b16 tranny might be a little more fun. my stock turbo b16 ran really good and ripped hard until I messed with the timing and blew a ringland

 

Not true at all. LS/VTEC motors can be as reliable as any others, someone has lied to you. Do some reading on here and you'll be pleasantly mistaken.

 

well.. if you want to get into engine geomeotry.. the ls/vtec is not a good engine bceuase of the R/S being so low. its like pushing a rod perpendicular to a wall. i know LS/VTEC CAN/COULD be reliable.. it all depends on the parts.. i have all brand new eparts.. but i really didnt wanna mess around with the engine internally and i fi did i'd have to go all out on the build which im tryna avoid

 

if i had to choose i would go ls turbo. with cams a turbo ls can make power to almost 8k, and will own the b16 in trq. trq is what wins races.

 

I would go LS+better trans.

That will yeild best bang for the buck.


Or d-series???

 

ls w/ b16 or gsr tranny.

 

try telling that to Formula 1, there cars make ~260 ft lb of torque near there 20,000rpm redline... basically the same amount of tq my civic makes at redling, its never all about 1 thing.

now back on topic... its really prefrance, i would go with the b16 personally. Turbo LS is just not fun with the low redline and OP said he did NOT want to do internals so cams and valvetrain are out of the question...

 

I see what you're saying, but I've seen plenty of reliable LS/V's around. Ideal R/S ratio is 1.75:1. To get that number, divide rod length by stroke. For a B16, it's 134.4mm/77.4mm = 1.74:1 which is almost perfect. For a B18, it's 137mm/89mm = 1.54:1. That is relatively low and has a high rod angle which means a good bit of side loading. Not quite perpendicular, but close. I'm not trying to insult your intelligence here, I'm still learning as well.

Still, I'd go Turbo LS with B16 trans.

 

RS ratio is not nearly as important as people like to think, its just one part of the orchestra, don't forget about all the NA guys with 86x89mm builds that rev to 9000rpm, proper assembly and balancing is equally if not more important.

 

Quite true. F1 cars and motorcycles have like a 2:1 R/S.

 

haha.. im not saying you're trying to insult my intelligence. i know that the b16 has a higher r/s closer to 1.75 thus the reason i said i didnt want ls/v for high revving

 

you are right that its not ALL about the r/s, but it definatly does put the extra wear n tear on the engine.. its not going to be a race engine thoguh, it will be a dd

 

i never considered cams/valvetrain as internals, more like boltons. i have had ls-t and ls/v-turbo setups. if both a ls and b16 at the same hp levels, the ls will own the b16. the ls will produce about 40-50 more ft lb of trq in the mid range than a b16, at the same boost levels.

plus a ls will provide better spool over a sweet 16.

and this is not F1, this is street cars having fun. trq is a measureable force, hp is a calculated figure.

read this interesting article by jeff evans:http://forums.evans-tuning.com/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=41

i would run a ls motor w/ cam gears on a gsr trans. just my .2 cents

 

ughhh.. see its a hard choice here.. i know that hondas make power with hgih rpm ... but the ls DOESNT

 

highway pulls b16 ftw

 

that may be true, but no so at the 1320.

 

its just going to be a daily driver with occassion "FUN" moments. no actual racing

 

torque wins tractor pulls horsepower wins races due to converting low torque to high horsepower using high rpms......unless you factor rpms into the equation you can't say just say torque wins races.........if that was the case turbo diesel trucks would own about everything at the drag strip

now if your talking about circuit racing torque usely means alot more than horsepower hence why audi's r10 TT diesels own at leman and such they just hit boost have a ton of torque and pull away coming out of a curve but that is because coming through and out of a tight curve your not going to be at high rpms

if its going to be a dd basicly the question need to ask your self is do like to rev your motor to about 8-8500 rpms to be able to be in boost after the shift if the answer is no then the b16 is not for you

you would be much happier with the ls do a little head work get a cam and it can rev to 8k but it will have much more tq than the b16 until after 8k and the b16 will carry the torque and make more power

you can't just say tq vs hp without putting rpms into the equation

 

yea

 

Good to go.

 

i supposed the LS would be NICE. i could always do LS/VTEC later on no?

 

I dig what your saying but cams are an internal engine part, that is a fact. Sure if you know what your doing its easy to swap them out but they are an internal part. I know what Jeff Evans says, thats cool, but another notable builder Jeff at IB argues that the b16a is the better street turbo motor so everyone has there opinions, even the professionals and og's. Mine is with the b16 camp. In the end its as i first stated it comes down to prefrence and we all have our own

 

I would think a B16 would be a better turbo street motor for sure, what is stock Redine 8400? + the Heads Outflow a ls head for sure.

Granted I went 11.2 on a stock ls-t but if it was a b16 i wouldent have holding it at the redline at the 1000' (120mph 7500rpm 23" slicks)

LS-T with a B16 or GSR trans is not a good combo for the 1320' unless your running a 26" tire!

 

lst with a b16 tranny is rediculous, being at 5k at 80mph and shifting into 5th in the quarter mile SUCKS!