RTW DC2R

Im preparing to delve into the b00sted world of hondas, but trying to gain as much info as possible before I start buying and taking **** apart. I have the opportunity to get an LS block for very cheap, and Im wondering if it would be worth it to boost the hell out of it. Im looking to reach 500-600WHP, so I would take the necessary steps of sleeving it, rods, pistons, etc. I searched around, and didnt see too much with LS set ups. It seems most people are using other B series blocks. I was intending to use a VTEC head as well, so Im not sure how well that will work with an LS block. Im also not sure on the crank differences between an LS and other blocks, would the LS crank be a problem? Can you give me some pros/cons of an high powered LS/VTEC turbo set up? Thanks

00siBuilder

Your looking at making 500-600 and your not sure if a vtec head will work with an ls block?

another one of these fantasy builds?

Why you trying to make so much?

all depends on how you take care of it.... its going to be alot more touchy then a stock motor.... But keep maitenance up and dont be a rookie and you should be fine.(not running 500-600)

Pro's
Slightly better low/end mid range(more fun to daily drive)
Cheaper to get ahold of


Cons
Higher Piston Speeds
More severe rod/stroke
No connecting brace to Main caps (but you can buy one)
No oil squirters (who cares)
Have to run Exterior Oil line

Oh yeah, AND SEARCH type in LS/VTEC sure youll find plenty.

RTW DC2R

Thanks for the input. I know the LS/VTEC works, I just dont know exactly whats needed to make it work right and how reliable it is under boost. I have been searching and reading posts all morning.

why do I want to make that much power? why not? Ive squeezed a respectable amount of power from my ITR all motor and Id like to do the same with a turbo set up. Like I said, I dont know exactly what Im gonna do yet, Im looking for ideas and gathering info. Because an LS is available to me for very cheap, I wanted to get some info.

I know that tuning and maintenance are key in a setup like this.

DaX

iTrader: (1)

I'm shooting for a high horsepower LS. I'm going the non-vtec route because the blocks and heads are so cheap as compared to their variable timing counterparts, and to spite most of my friends who are VTEC stunnas.

I think the LS is very capable of handling high horsepower if properly built, just as well as any VTEC motor.

RTW DC2R

Im assuming a GSR crank would swap right over to an LS block, right? Dax, you plan to use the LS crank in your set up?

DaX

iTrader: (1)

Yes, sticking with the LS crank.

m R g S r

Yea, the gsr crank will fit. You can also use gsr rods, but then you need custom pistons.

quikB18B

How deep are your pockets? Keep in mind building a 500-600 setup from scratch takes alot of $$$, time, custom work, patience. Seeing as how your a boost n00b I would not recomend trying to start our you first time aiming for that much power, but everyone is different, it's your call.

As far as your power goals, well I would go ahead and go with a better solid motor. If it were me and those were my goals Gsr all the way. In my eyes the Ls is better for a 200-350hp type of power on a budget. The ls is an awesome motor, but I think it has it's limitations when you talk about making serious power.

DaX

iTrader: (1)

What limitations? Honestly. I don't doubt that there are limitations, as I see many experienced people talk about it, but I never hear exactly what these limitations are.

In my case, I'm aiming for 250-300 whp on a stock LS block.

RTW DC2R

What limitations are you speaking of? Aside from the "cons" listed above by someone else.

With new pistons/rods and/or crank, I think that cancels out the rod stroke/piston speed issue.

And if using a non VTEC head, then there is no worry about the oil squirters issue.

Other than that, what else is limiting? Only thing I have read so far is that you are starting out with less compression, which means you will have to boost more to reach the same power level of a motor with more compression. But if Im getting a set of forged pistons, I can get whatever compression I want so thats not an issue either. And Im aware that with more compression, tuning becomes that much more critical.

If I go through with this, then I would do it right. Id replace bearings, seals, oil pumps, etc etc and the block would be sent out to get bored and new sleeves installed.

As far as the block is concerned, what else is there to worry about?

DaX

iTrader: (1)

Oil squirters aren't even an issue if you use forged pistons. Actually, I'd remove them if you were using forged pistons in a VTEC block...less mass on the piston. The only downside I see is that the LS block doesn't have a girdle...it has seperate main caps. Correct me if I'm wrong, but won't a GSR girdle fit in an LS? If not, I know Endyn makes a girdle.

The only thing I may worry about with that high of a HP setup would be harmonics in the block, especially with new internals. I'd look into the Fludampur Crankshaft Pulley...I've seen too many people shatter their oil pump gears and **** their engines up.

SiBirdie

here let me tell you some info on my lsvtec 2.0 build up for high power.

Ls block
darton 84mm sleeves close deck
Arais 9:1 piston
Eagle H beam rods
ARP head studs
New OEM head gasket and all the seals
Stainless steal oil return line
Blitz Sandwhich adapter or you get the gold eagle one whichever all work the same.
Balance and blue print buttom end * this is a must here *
GSR water pump new
GSR oil pump + Toda oil pump gear
toda timming belt

Head
B16 head ported
supertech valves
skunk 2 Ti retainers
skunk 2 valve springs
AEBS intake manifold
GSR cams

hope this gives you an idea.

quikB18B

Sorry I was referring to the Ls head, but after reading the thread more carefully, its looks like regardless your going to use the Vtec head .

RTW DC2R

the ONLY benefit of using a VTEC head is the cams right? Or do those heads "flow" better than an LS head? What if I got the LS head ported? Whatever head I choose will most likely be sent out as well, probably to Portflow or something like that.

SoulEdge

Vtec heads flow MUCH better. For the money spent on porting the ls head you can get the vtec head which will give you a much better base to work with. Hell, if you look at some of the high hp cars here, 500 hp is do-able without even porting a gsr head.

DaX

iTrader: (1)

The benfit of a VTEC head really comes in at high RPMs because the cam switches to a more appropriate lobe for a high RPM band.

If you're boosting, start with the LS head with no port and polishing, unless you have the money and want to invest in a VTEC head, all the lines necessary, new head gasket, etc. to do an LS-VTEC setup.

GQ Cowboy

How much can a stock LS motor handle? Do you think there will be a need to build the block if your going to turbo the LS motor but keep it mainly for daily driving (in other words running low psi - nothing over 9psi)? I am interested in turboing a LS motor. I'm trying to figure out if a LS motor can handle the boost when its all stock.

DaX

iTrader: (1)

It all depends on horsepower output desired. I'm leaving my LS block stock, and running no more than 9-10 psi [limited by stock honda map sensor]. I am aiming for 250-300whp, and my car is a daily driver. The only thing I could see failing would be me popping my headgasket, in which case I will replace it with a new OEM one and install some ARP head studs.

Non-VTEC stunna reprazent.

Joseph Davis

Yes, down with the LS for R/S reasons! That 0.02:1 more than GSR kills engines!!!111

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SoulEdge &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Vtec heads flow MUCH better. For the money spent on porting the ls head you can get the vtec head which will give you a much better base to work with. Hell, if you look at some of the high hp cars here, 500 hp is do-able without even porting a gsr head.</TD></TR></TABLE>

That's nice. 500 whp is possible without even porting an LS head.

Traditional flowbench junk is good when you are building an NA car, stunna, but when you manipulate pressure differential at a whim to arrive at your desired cfm, you find that it doesn't mean, well, anything in a forced induction application.

RTW DC2R

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by J. Davis &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Yes, down with the LS for R/S reasons! That 0.02:1 more than GSR kills engines!!!111</TD></TR></TABLE>

yeah but what about swapping in a GSR crank?

Teglove2

Build the ls for boost. Sleeve it, bore it to 2.0 liters, forged rods, pistons, clean up to head and push 25 psi through it via race gas. You'll make at least 450whp. I've done it.

turbohonda

The LS block is very competent even in the high hp range. As long as it is sleeved and has a main cap girdle on it, you will not be at a disadvantage over the GSR block. Besides, not having the piston squirters in the way when you assemble the bottom end is always helpful. As far as the r/s ratio of the LS crank, I have mixed thoughts about it. I made 809 whp out of a 84.5mm bore LS/vtec. The only problem that I ran into was the rod caps on my Crower rods were shifting to one direction. On my first set of Crower rods that it happened to, the bearing spun on me. On my second set of Crower rods I caught it early enough before the bearing spun. I was taking it to 10,000 rpms on the dyno and the track. I think that if you are going to use the LS crank (stock LS rod length), I don't think that it should be revved past around 9000-9200 rpms. I think the benefits of the extra stroke of the LS are not worth it. If you use a LS block, put a GSR crank in it. IMO

DaX

iTrader: (1)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by turbohonda &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I made 809 whp out of a 84.5mm bore LS/vtec. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Got a dyno sheet for that?

turbohonda

I don't have one for that amount but I did get one for 804.5. You can see a video of it at the dyno place that I was at. Go to http://www.resnickauto.com and click on the media box and videos. Then click on the video of my integra. Do you not believe me or something? I did this on 35 psi and methanol with a GT-72 turbo in March of 2003. I am not trying to brag about this, I am just proving to the guy that started this thread that the LS block is capable.

DaX

iTrader: (1)

Not misbelieving you, just love seeing high HP dyno sheets.