sundownz

I have been unable to locate much information about what I want to do with my car. I would like to get about 185 crank HP out of my D15 SOHC motor with a reliable, low-boost setup. So far with my other thread I have ruled out a full e-bay kit. Right now I am looking at the Greddy kit and an Intercooler from e-bay to go with it.

Since I am not familiar with turbo setups yet I do have some questions. Can that kit be adjusted to make low boost... say 6 PSI max... but to create a good bit of boost starting at a low RPM level? What I'm looking for is simply enough power to make the car not feel sluggish while not ruining my fuel mileage. Going super fast really is not a goal for this car.

I drive around 25k miles a year on average so I am getting rid of my 02' BMW 325i due to expensive maintainance and so-so fuel mileage -- I'd like to pep the Civic up to about the level of the 325i. Being that the 325i is no speed demon either I am thinking this won't be a great deal to ask out of a mild turbo setup.

Any advice is appreciated.

Schister66

Get some kind of tubular log (or better if you can afford it) manifold, a T3/T04E 50 trim, RC550 injectors, IC piping, JRC 6" IC, tune on Crome (or something better if you can afford it) and have fun.....you can run probably 9psi on that setup w/o trouble as long as you're tuned well

---the advantage of the log manifold i mentioned is that you can keep PS and AC very easily....just check out the MarketPlace

BoostedB16EJ

you can use the greddy si intercooler kit with a little bit of love. those ebay kits dont have bellowed ends on the pipes. this means they wind up slipping off and popping under boost. i know ebay is the more cost effective way to do it, but you really do get what you pay for.

sundownz

Oh okay, I didn't know that about the e-bay coolers. I will make a note of that. Any way to modify the e-bay cooler to stay together or is it just one of those deals where you have to buy the real deal?

As for my original post, is it possible to "tone down" a turbo kit enough to get what I'm looking for? Theoretically I should be able to make a bit more power and not hurt my fuel efficiency, correct?

TheHooded_Mike

Just so you know, a greddy kit is set at around 6psi right out of the box. Also, any turbo setup can be adjusted down to a certain point by adjusting the wastegate, but they are limited by the size of the spring. As far as gas mileage goes, a smaller turbo will probably hurt it more than a large one because it'll be harder to stay out of boost.

HiProfile

For 185whp on a sohc you *barely* need an intercooler. For $100 more an some extra tubing you can slap on an ebay one. They aren't bad quality at all. I was about to do a non-intercooled 45trim T3 setup on my coupe, but it bent a rod last week. All it would need is three 90* bends, two couplers, and a downpipe.

If your goal is simply to make it less sluggish and get better gas milage, you CAN'T beat a small turbo. A t25 at 6-8psi can do 185whp and spool very quick for a 1.5L motor. Not only that, but your motor will also be more effecient for the same amount of power, so you'll end up getting more power along with gas savings. A larger turbo will require you to lug the motor if you don't downshift all the time, and that will really suck if you only run it at low psi.

The only time you won't be saving gas is if you have a lead foot. My sohc turbo got about the same gas milage to/from work (rush hour start/stop & cruising) as it did NA, but thats with over twice the power. The key is that you make the same amount of power at a much lower RPM.


Also note that most turbos people here consider small are those that can't do over 200whp w/o going over 10psi. Very few turbos max out at 15psi, let alone 10psi. If you have the ability to crank the so-called small turbos (t25, <60 trim t3) past 15psi, you'll have no problem making 225-250whp on a sohc. MORE than enough for a fast daily driver.

sundownz

HiProfile,

Great post, thanks alot! You really answered alot of my questions.

----

How about tuning? Do you know or does anyone else know a good shop to tune something like this in the Charlotte, NC area?

HiProfile

From the tuner directory:

North Carolina

-Jdogg
-SuperiorAutoTech
-3905 manly farm rd
-wake forest, nc 27587
-919-218-0290
-superiorautotech@gmail.com
-tunes aem ems, crome, etc, etc

CPRacing
-4240 South Blvd.
-Charlotte, NC 28209
-HT: CPRace1
-Phone: 704-527-0123
-Phone: 1-877-CPRACE1
-http://www.cprace.com
-Dyno Dynamics Dyno
-Hondata, Crome, Uberdata, Greddy Emanage, Apexi, AEM and more

RLZ ENGINEERING
-Howard Shoaf
-313 Manor Ave. SW
-Concord, NC 28025
-Phone: 704-262-7948
-Fax: 704-786-9587.
-E-mail: http://brad@rlzengineering.com
-Crome licensed dealer, Hondata dealer, In house Dynapack,ECU chipping, street car to race car TURN KEY PACKAGES

sundownz

Thanks again!

castronovab

North Carolina

-Jdogg
-SuperiorAutoTech
-3905 manly farm rd
-wake forest, nc 27587
-919-218-0290
-superiorautotech@gmail.com
-tunes aem ems, crome, etc, etc


Hw is good, used to work at phantasm and a site with great information http://www.turbod16.com

Electrodynamic

Damn, HiProfile is the man. Providing excellent info for your little hatch.

boosted92

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Schister66 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Get some kind of tubular log (or better if you can afford it) manifold, a T3/T04E 50 trim, RC550 injectors, IC piping, JRC 6" IC, tune on Crome (or something better if you can afford it) and have fun.....you can run probably 9psi on that setup w/o trouble as long as you're tuned well

---the advantage of the log manifold i mentioned is that you can keep PS and AC very easily....just check out the MarketPlace</TD></TR></TABLE>

A T3/TO4E that will support almost 3 times his ultimate power goal is absolutely rediculously oversized. A T25 or a T3 is more than enough, and for only 185 crank horsepower I personally would look for a JRSC kit.

1158

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sundownz &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">HiProfile,

Great post, thanks alot! You really answered alot of my questions.

----

How about tuning? Do you know or does anyone else know a good shop to tune something like this in the Charlotte, NC area?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Check out Jack at P1 Auto in Fort Mill SC, just south of Charlotte. Had him tune my car on Friday, did a great job.

rmcdaniels

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by boosted92 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">for only 185 crank horsepower I personally would look for a JRSC kit.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I'd second that. If you only want to run 6 PSI of boost, then a supercharger works great. Brand new kits list for less than $2000 from Jackson Racing, and you can get them cheaper than that.

For tuning, I'd recommend jDogg (Jason), he's tuned all of my setups and done excellent work. He gets down to RLZ in Concord pretty frequently, so I'm sure that you could set up a tuning appointment with him. He can also take care of getting you a chipped ECU and some injectors. I'd advise against using the FMU rig that comes wih most turbo/SC kits. Howard at RLZ looks like he knows what he's doing too, I haven' had him tune anything of mine, but he tuned my brother's car and it works well, plus he's built some motors for me that have been very good.

sc4dr

He is baically describing a supercharger setup for his DD. I'm gonna agree with rmcdaniels, he would be very content with the torque, reliability, and good gas mileage.

Dont hate turbo guys, I drive a turbo car, but still very much respect a nice jrsc car

Electrodynamic

Since all the talk of superchargers I've got to ask about the gas mileage compared to a turbo. Back in my muslce car days with 5.7 liter on up V8's, superchargers KILLED gas mileage, where as turbo's still gave good hp increases without murdering gas mileage (a typical supercharged V8 as mentioned above gets around 9 mpg BTW).

So I suppose what I'm asking is if anyone has had experience with a supercharged car and a turbo charged car (Honda's of course) with similar hp #'s and what was the difference in gas mileage between the two?

rmcdaniels

Mileage should be the same or slightly better than stock off boost.

Professor15

what is your budget?

ATYPR

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by boosted92 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

A T3/TO4E that will support almost 3 times his ultimate power goal is absolutely rediculously oversized. A T25 or a T3 is more than enough, and for only 185 crank horsepower I personally would look for a JRSC kit.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I would go with the T3 and a set of 450cc because it leaves you room to grow. Trust me, 185whp is going to get old. I would stay away from a JRSC for the same reason.

sc4dr

He really might not be a speed junkie, and just want to drive "swiftly"

sundownz

Thats about right

I'm not into drag racing, street racing, or any racing really... but my car is pretty much slow as crap right now and I'd like it to feel about like my 325i did when I want to step on the gas a bit.

I would be game for a supercharger but I have *always* heard that they kill gas mileage. I know when I looked into them for my 325i I was reading like 5 - 6 MPG less daily driving. I don't see how a weaker engine could lose less mileage with a parasitic draw on it from the supercharger.

Unless my understanding is wrong the SC actually robs power until boost kicks in since it is belt driven and requires engine power to turn. Is this correct?

rmcdaniels

The SC is bypassed until you want boost, and spinning it when it is bypassed (not compressing any air) takes up to 1 HP. Because it is always spinning, there is no "building boost" like with a turbo, as soon as the bypass closes (when you open the throttle), you get boost. Because it is always spinning and the way the bypass valve works, you actually gain volumetric efficiency under part throttle, resulting in better MPG when cruising.

This applies to a Roots supercharger, like the Eaton M45 in the JR kit. Other types of superchargers have much greater parasitic losses, even when bypassed. As far ar BMW superchargers go, I've seen centrifugical and Lysholm supercharger setups, either of which will generate significant losses compared to a Roots supercharger. Of course they will also make a lot more boost, but that's the trade-off.

sundownz

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rmcdaniels &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The SC is bypassed until you want boost, and spinning it when it is bypassed (not compressing any air) takes up to 1 HP. Because it is always spinning, there is no "building boost" like with a turbo, as soon as the bypass closes (when you open the throttle), you get boost. Because it is always spinning and the way the bypass valve works, you actually gain volumetric efficiency under part throttle, resulting in better MPG when cruising.

This applies to a Roots supercharger, like the Eaton M45 in the JR kit. Other types of superchargers have much greater parasitic losses, even when bypassed. As far ar BMW superchargers go, I've seen centrifugical and Lysholm supercharger setups, either of which will generate significant losses compared to a Roots supercharger. Of course they will also make a lot more boost, but that's the trade-off.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Thanks a ton for clearing that up for me. You just made my life easier

The Jackson Racing kit looks like it still only gets me to ~140 HP according to dynos on their site... is this accurate? I suppose that is WHP... does that mean something like my 185 HP crank HP goal?

If not... would the Jackson kit be compatible with the JDM EK D15 engine with three stage VTEC? Like this one:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...d=1,1

That would easily get me to my goal since that motor already makes 30 more HP than my regular D15 motor.

Thanks again.


Modified by sundownz at 8:13 PM 10/22/2006

rmcdaniels

Check the SOHC SC thread for specific HP and fitment information:

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1745564

I only mess with B-series motors, so I can't get specific about D-series numbers.

rmcdaniels

Here's a JRSC D15B making about 180 at the wheels:

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1197037