teg racer 877

here is my AFR sheet, my tuner only did about 6 or 7 runs on the dyno, I was just wondering how the curve looks and if its a good tune, blue is the first run and red is the last.

teg racer 877

Im asking this because he was using a wideband that measures at the end of the exhaust, not at the dp, and he said it would read a little off, so im like, how do you tune it if its not reading afr right? thanks for any help.

2fast4u831

what the hell is this?

blueshark123

Are you running a cat?

blueshark123

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 2FAST4U831 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">what the hell is this? </TD></TR></TABLE>
Its a graph with hp and air/fuel ratio.

Those numbers are retarded lean even for an N/A application

Qveon

looks shitty. what are you tuning with.

david@didrace.com

Way off. A wideband reading from the tailpipe at WOT is delayed by like 50rpm max. So your tuner is on crack.

2fast4u831

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by blueshark123 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Its a graph with hp and air/fuel ratio.

Those numbers are retarded lean even for an N/A application</TD></TR></TABLE>that was my point. run 007 looks better up top than run 001 but still lean

teg racer 877

oh man I was afraid of those kind of answers, I dont have a cat, its a full three inch turbo back system, using hondata s200b.

b00sted_hatch

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by teg racer 877 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">oh man I was afraid of those kind of answers, I dont have a cat, its a full three inch turbo back system, using hondata s200b.</TD></TR></TABLE>

jesus christ. you better baby your car before that **** blows up. your tuner SUCKS! that can safely be said lol. where are you located? maybe i can find you a better tuner.

yee SERIOUS

iTrader: (1)

that doesn't not look good. even a tailpipe sniffer shouldn't be that bad, unless that o2 sensor just needs to be replaced. i would definitely try to go to another dynoshop to double check.... or at least get a wideband o2 and do a datalog.

hey didn't i write what you quoted in your sig?

BoostedEG6

looks like a roller coaster ........ I think you need to get a better tunner

turbotime

LEAN ALL OVER THE PLACE??

If i read this correctly your in the 12-13 range in boost which is quite lean, 11.5 is optimal i think, richer is better

teg racer 877

Ok so what should I do? I will e-mail the guy who tuned it and tell him that it sucks and what he will do to change it, than what? Im in monument Co. and he is 1 of only like 2 tuners that is licenced for hondata here, he is very reputable also , he did no part throttle or street tuning either.


Modified by teg racer 877 at 7:08 PM 7/22/2006

Finest

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by teg racer 877 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">he is 1 of only like 2 tuners that is licenced for hondata here </TD></TR></TABLE>

Go to the "other" tuner in your area.

abnaasefmb

i wonder what the driving portion looks like? I hate to flame when I don’t know the whole story, but what you got there is not good.

teg racer 877

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by abnaasefmb &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i wonder what the driving portion looks like? I hate to flame when I don’t know the whole story, but what you got there is not good. </TD></TR></TABLE>

what do you mean by "driving portion"?

I have an e-mail into another shop with a great reputation, (half the price as well), this shop had great rep also, weird.

I e-mailed the guy also, Il tell u guys what he says about it tomarrow.

teg racer 877

anyone have a good afr map to post up? so I can see what it should look like?

mrbsponge

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by teg racer 877 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">anyone have a good afr map to post up? so I can see what it should look like?</TD></TR></TABLE>

heres mine, its not the best but i think its pretty good

teg racer 877

wow thats alot different, ok so I just got a reply, he said 12.8 in boost is conservative for the altitude im in, 5500-6500ft, sound right? he also said the wideband is accurate to .3-.5, idk, should I stick with this guy or go to the other spot? the other shop(MAC autosports) sounds like they know what there doing.

FULLTHROTTLE

Im the tuner on this car and here is part of the story you guys do not know. This is only one hour of dyno tuning at the customer's request with no mention of requested AFRs or target AFRs. Also no mention was made of a 02 bung in the exhaust otherwise I would have used it. The dyno we used is a dynojet so there are some limitations. On average the rpm difference is about 500 with the particular tailpipe sniffer that they have there and I have gotten used to that dyno and can tune around it. As far as it being dangerously lean you guys are a little off base. At sea level I would never let this fly, here in CO at altitudes of at least 4500 feet to 6500 feet you can get away with some luxuries of leaner mixtures and more timing. They actually run better that way. Now, for those of you who dont know me, I am the ONLY authorized Hondata tuner in the state and have tuned hundreds of these cars without a single issue, most of which still get 30+ mg,and pass our emissions testing. As I mentioned to you in our e-mail chat teg racer, I have a new Dynapack dyno being installed in my shop as we speak and I would give you a free pull or two with the wideband in the pipe to ease your mind. As I also mentioned, you always have the option for more tuning to get it more finely tuned. I strive for 100% customer satisfaction, It dismays me to see that you were not happy with the tune, if you choose to use my services again I will make sure you are satisfied with what your decision.

abnaasefmb

Ok, got it. Kid came in, cheeped out on the tuning and went and bitched about it because it was not perfect on the internet. I would be annoyed as well. Here is what I don’t get. 12:1 afr on top of Mt. McKinley is = to 12:1 on the floor of Death Valley. It simply means there are 12 little oxygen particles to every one fuel practical, right? yeah, I know your air isn’t as dense , I drove my M3 through there last year and it felt like a golf cart but its not FI. So I don’t get it, I’m not saying it’s not true just please explain so I can understand. Thanks.

FULLTHROTTLE

We have less actual oxygen content per set volume of air, less fuel is required. Not to mention it is easier for us to run more advance because of this also. We are less likely to have knock. The o2 sensor measures oxygen molecules flowing past it that are left over in the exhaust stream. We start out with less to begin with so it there are less in the exhasut stream after a good burn. Most cars that come from sea level will lose a ton of power and get shitty mileage coming here. We usually start be leaning out the mixture and adding some timing to get some of those ponies back.


On the AF curve on the dyno the high start measurement was at cruise speed. Our old dyno rollers need to be resurfaced so if I jump on the throttle the tires usually spin. What you are seeing is a light throttle roll on to a hard acceleration dyno pull. If that helps anyone understand the overall measurement of the AFR.

turbotime

seems like as the tuner you should know to look/ask about the o2 bung and should definitely not ask the owner for target afr- as the tuner its your jon to know the target afr for a boosted vehicle and tune it to there, not ask some no-nothing car owner what he wants the afr to be; you might ask a power goal but asking a target afr of a customer seems a bit odd.

Anyway he seems like a good tuner, an hour of dyno time is very little and he did state he would be more than happy to get it more finely dialed in.

Id give him another chance, anyone whose willing to recitify the situation after this kinda post is a good guy imho

yee SERIOUS

iTrader: (1)

shame on you teg racer for not telling us you'd only pay for an hour of tuning. haha i don't know where you came up with the idea of a car being nearly fully tuned in an hour

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by abnaasefmb &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Here is what I don’t get. 12:1 afr on top of Mt. McKinley is = to 12:1 on the floor of Death Valley. It simply means there are 12 little oxygen particles to every one fuel practical, right? yeah, I know your air isn’t as dense , I drove my M3 through there last year and it felt like a golf cart but its not FI. So I don’t get it, I’m not saying it’s not true just please explain so I can understand. Thanks.</TD></TR></TABLE>

someone correct me if i'm wrong...

i believe it has to do with volume efficency. in an f/i setup, we change the volume efficency, but we do not change the volume flow because we cant change the size of our cylinder once it's running. we're still moving the same amount of volume through its cycle, now we're just making the volume more "dense."

remember that an engine tested at sea level will make more power than if it were tested one mile in elevation due to the higher oxygen content in the air at sea level. altitude is what effects air pressure and temperature. at sea level air pressure is 29.92 in.hg and tempature is 59.00degrees F (in comparison to colorado's altitude of 4000ft, AP is 25.89in.hg and temp is 44.47deg F). *less dense air = lessen the fuel.

but what is air density right? it's the weight per unit of volume basically. take for example a gallon of laundry detergent vs. a gallon of feathers. same volume, different weight becaues the detergent is more dense. the density of the air affects how much power an engine makes because the only part of air that is used for combustion is oxygen. the more dense air, the more oxygen it will contain.

air density is calculated by
D = 2.7 x P/T

where: D = density
P = absolute pressure
T = absolute temperature

here's an engine calculator i found on the net:
http://wahiduddin.net/calc/calc_hp.htm