a1320honda

I guy brought his car to me to have it checked out and the tune checked out. Its on a street tune the guy paid $200 for. setup is pretty basic.

2000 civic Si on 15psi of boost
B20 non-vtec with JE 9.1 pistons and Eagle rods
Stock head
ARP headstuds
Stock fuel pressure
walbro 255
GM 2 bar map sensor
DSM 450's
cast manifold
Ebay 57trim
external Ebay wastegate with 15psi spring
tuned on Crome Pro

running some weird triple strap platinum plug thats brilliant white from top to bottom.

The customer takes his car to the track and wonders why the car wont break outta the 14's. I looked at the map and total timing at 15psi is 8*.

I personaly feel the car is unsafe to be boosting on and thats what i told him, and to get some bigger injectors if he wants to run 15psi, he picked up some PTE 680's and were gonna retune. But i want your guys opinions just so i can show him that im not full of **** and his 1st tuner....i feel is.

093turbo16

iTrader: (2)

Well if you have the map post a screen shot of it and maybe we can agree with you.

a1320honda

wanna see timing map, fuel map, idc map?

I personaly just think theres not enough fuel there period. 15psi on a 2.0 with dsm 450cc injectors on stock fuel pressure.

093turbo16

iTrader: (2)

I do agree with you. If on the base fuel pressure the 450cc injectors should be beyond their limit.

omgwtfbbq

$200 for a STREET TUNE? wow. what is he using to monitor the air/fuel?

boosted k20

agree. 15psi on that turbo and a 2.0 liter on 450cc will def be running out of fuel.

b20beast83

Does the timing sound safe?

boosted k20

post up the timing tables. 8* at 15psi seems way retarded for a B20 motor with 9:1 CR pistons.

And i wouldnt be running those triple strap plugs on this motor. i say dont go back to that tuner

Garage 808 Hatch

That car sounds to have 3 or more issues with it just from the little bit of info posted.

450cc injectors are too small for that setup at that amount of boost
8* of timing is not enough, could possibly be causing high egts
platinum plugs in a turbo honda in my opinion is a bad idea.
good afrs should yield a brownish color IMO

a1320honda

Picture removed

Joseph Davis

Haha, you should have just posted the timing map from the very beginning.

FYI, street tune, second time at the track with a new car/setup/everything:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFruhqDgiv0

FRANKBUILT

Wow thats messed up $200 duckets for a bogus base map sucks! what a joke!

093turbo16

iTrader: (2)

Wow man. That is rediculous. I am pretty sure my 5 year old nephew could do better than that by just clicking around!

Slink2000

Who's the local tuner so I know to stay away from him

0KStuned

I agree that 8 degrees isn't optimal but probably only 10 whp to be gained
NO reason not to just use BKR7e's (NGK!)
It's pretty common to see a white ceramic, just watch the wideband
But in the 14's! Whoa! Tune or driver is definitely off!

Steve-Send me the map and I'll make some timing changes.... or you can make them. You know what to do!

Tony the Tiger

Well, poor 1/4mile times isn't really a good measure of anything... I ran 12.6's on my Integra with street tires, yet my friend can't even get into the 13's with the same car...lol

8 deg of timing is way too retarded though, however, before judging anything else, make sure the ignition timing is sync'd properly. I know some tuners would try to street tune the car by feel, and they just adjust timing accordingly. If the base timing was too advanced, then 8 deg could be in fact 12 or 14 deg for example.

Garage 808 Hatch

at 8* though the extremety of that could cause higher EGT's, and over time cause some damage

a1320honda

I dont wanna say names or bad mouth anyone. I was doin this just to prove to the car owner that i wasnt wrong. Hes new to the scene and a younger kid that cant afford to have stuff fail cause of a bad tune.

I know the timing is the only reason the has hasnt cracked a sleeve or something from detonation. But its the fact that the tuner told the customer the car was optimaly tuned on 15psi and that bigger injectors arent needed, and that DSM 450's are perfectly legit for a 2 litre on 15psi with stock fuel pressure.

Joseph Davis

The butt dyno is a liar, easier to trust a ***** you've made into a housewife.

Best thing to do with a street tune is start with a generous amount of retard. Take pulls and add timing until your boost level starts to drop 1-1.5 psi; when too retarded the burn feeds the turbine, when advance so that it starts feeding the piston instead the turbo pulls a little less boost, for any given boost controller setting. This is really easy to mess up in anything making as little as 225 whp... some setups hook, some feel like they hook but they don't, some are obviously not hooking. I have a friend who can't afford dyno time I tuned by this method... he pulls newer 600RR on the highway, but goes full rich and misfires @ 250whp on rollers (three pulls for $40 at a dyno day, sadly enough it's a Dynojet). Other cars (video above) I did similarly with obviously good but honestly not the best results.

418whpturboD

i know who tuned this car..and he doesnt know what he is doing..

a1320honda

I dont think its who you think it is lol.

jasoncrashtech

x2 ?

HiProfile

WTF? The 2.0L car those injectors came from are barely enough for the STOCK turbo and 15psi. A 2.0L 9:1cr Honda motor & larger turbo is extremely questionable with them.

I just about threw up in my mouth when I saw that timing map. That's not even a half-assed attempt - that's someone taking some rough numbers and copy/pasting them throughout the boost columns.


Platinum plugs are great - for very refined NA motors that can last 50k miles w/o much maintenance. Not so much so in a high-strung turbo motor. They have a much higher propensity for breaking tips off and trashing an entire motor, as well as the turbine wheel. Copper plugs don't have that bad of a lifespan in a turbo motor, even a weekend whip that barely sees an civil driving.


Bottom line - if the kid can't afford a breakdown, he needs a better tune, less boost, and maybe better parts. He also needs to do research on a variety of websites, especially older factory-turbo sites (not STi/Evo sites).



PS: The local "turner" really should be named. $200 is quite a fee for such a crappy map. Shops around here barely charge that for quick dyno tune. He either has to change his prices, or disclose his apparent lack of knowledge. In the mean time, he's just "taking people for a ride"...

D16SohcVtec

I wouldn't pay anyone to street tune my car. Especially for a crappy map like that. Street tune to me, is just adjusting AFR. You can't even adjust ignition timing to it's best, all you can do is use the simple method of retarding a certain amount of timing for a certain amount of boost. This is why I do my research, learn how to use my fuel management system, and street tune my own car. People should do their homework, so even if they don't tune their own car they at least have a clue on whats going on. The only time I would let someone else tune my car is on a dyno at a reputable shop. Other then that, I'm a DIY tuner myself.

a1320honda

The owner of the car has recently become a member on here. If he wants to let everyone know who tuned his car then ill let him say. But once again, i dont want any drama and am not tryin to give somone a bad name. Like i said, this thread was just to show the owner of the car that his car was improperly tuned.