- Limits of Cryo treatment
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From: springfield, missouri, usa
- Limits of Cryo treatment
Ok, so I have read page after page of how its done ... and increases hardness by 30% ..... etc
Most of the info I can find is related to treatment of cranks/gears/cams/valvetrain etc
and I am interested in treatment of rods and pistons, and specifically if it increases their HP limits.
Like the limit of stock B series rods/pistons tends to be around 300WHP ... so has anybody pushed the limits of cryo treated rods/pistons ?????
Please help me search . TIA
Most of the info I can find is related to treatment of cranks/gears/cams/valvetrain etc
and I am interested in treatment of rods and pistons, and specifically if it increases their HP limits.
Like the limit of stock B series rods/pistons tends to be around 300WHP ... so has anybody pushed the limits of cryo treated rods/pistons ?????
Please help me search . TIA
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From: Reno, NV
Re: - Limits of Cryo treatment (vaporboy12)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by vaporboy12 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">why not get a set of manley rod and cp wiesco or arias pistons and not have to worry about it</TD></TR></TABLE>
Im sure if you have the mental capacity to understand the benifits of aftermarket piston/rod setups you could understand the question he asked. People need to stop posting usless comments like yours. "Why not", well maybe because he doesnt want to spend that much money??? If you don't have a helpful post then move on, find something worth posting about and stop wasting space
As for the original question I have to say I would like to find some insight on the cryo treatment also, you allways hear of it or shotpeening rods, but what is the realistic benifit? From what you say of %30 could it be assumed that they would be able to handle %30 more hp?
Im sure if you have the mental capacity to understand the benifits of aftermarket piston/rod setups you could understand the question he asked. People need to stop posting usless comments like yours. "Why not", well maybe because he doesnt want to spend that much money??? If you don't have a helpful post then move on, find something worth posting about and stop wasting space
As for the original question I have to say I would like to find some insight on the cryo treatment also, you allways hear of it or shotpeening rods, but what is the realistic benifit? From what you say of %30 could it be assumed that they would be able to handle %30 more hp?
Member
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 6,187
Likes: 0
From: Reno, NV
Re: (vaporboy12)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by vaporboy12 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">well cyro treating in its self is not cheap. that why i made the usless comment about goin to aftermarket rods and pistons </TD></TR></TABLE>
Well if your right about it not being cheap, say less than $200 then I would totally agree with you, I have no idea on price, but I cant imagine it would be that expensive to freeze something? I think we need to hear real prices on the freeze.
Well if your right about it not being cheap, say less than $200 then I would totally agree with you, I have no idea on price, but I cant imagine it would be that expensive to freeze something? I think we need to hear real prices on the freeze.
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Joined: Nov 2003
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From: Gettin sum, maryland
Re: (B18TurboEF)
RACING NEWS
Normally you will experience a slight increase in Rockwell of a point or two, not much of a change, but still improvement in the right direction. The big improvement is stress relief and stabilization. Engine parts, transmission parts , or any non cryogenic treated parts you are thinking about are full of stress and just waiting to distort when it reaches racing temperatures. All machined parts can distort if they have not been stress relieved. Pistons can change from round to oval due to stress and temperature. When this happens the piston drags the cylinder wall which takes horsepower away, creates heat, and wears the cylinder walls. It then requires the engine builder to rebore the cylinders by 2 to 3 thousandths. Cylinders that have been Cryogenic treated will normally be out of round only a 1/4 to a 1/2 of a thousandths, a big decrease in wear from a non treated cylinder.
The end result of Cryogenics treatment of your engine is improved performance with far less wear and less breakage. What parts should be Cryo treated? All parts that wear, break, or distort. Sheet metal, electrical parts, water pumps, oil pumps, or fuel pumps should not be treated.
The following are various parts of an engine and what you can expect to occur after the Cryogenic treatment:
BLOCKS: The treatment of the engine blocks should not only result in improved performance with less wear and breakage, but the stress relief and stabilization of the block should result in reduced distortion in other parts such as crankshafts and camshafts since they are no longer flexing and distorting. One instance with an aluminum Rodeck engine running in a winged sprint car during a season showed the engine blew five times, each suffering from a broken connecting rod. The next season using the same block only Cryogenic treated the owner notified us that after 31 races he had no engine part failures. The big difference now was increased performance which resulted in new chassis set-ups.
CRANKSHAFTS AND RODS: Reducing the stress from the large mass made up of the crankshaft and rods can help them stay more in balance allowing for improved performance with reduced wear and breakage.
PISTON ASSEMBLIES: The piston assemblies should not be treated with the rings installed on the pistons. Wrist pins should not be treated at all. Treating the piston assembly will help the pistons and rings remain round therefore maintaining a better seal which translates to more constant compression , improved performance and reduced breakage.
HEADS: Heads both cast and aluminum are less prone to distortion and breakage following the Cryogenic treatment. If you have a set of good heads that are cracked send them to a good head repair company. They will grind out the crack, build up that portion that was cracked and machine it back to original specs. All these steps put stress back into the head, left untreated this will cause distortion and cracking can occur. Cryogenic treatment should be applied to the heads following repair then the finish machining can be done.
CAMSHAFTS: Although camshafts don’t seem to suffer breakage, wear can be a problem With Cryogenic treatment this wear can be greatly reduced.
VALVE SPRINGS: We have received many reports concerning the Cryogenic treatment of valve springs. Valve springs from 4-cycle go karts, quarter midgets, and motorcycles have often showed an increase in pressure (5-15%) and improved life of 100% or more. Automotive valve springs as well as Top Fuel drag cars have shown an increase in life.
PUSHRODS, LIFTERS, VALVES: These should all be treated but do not have any really good feedback on advantages.
ROCKER ARMS: Stock automotive to high quality rocker arms with bearings are good candidates for Cryogenics.
INTAKE MANIFOLDS: Automotive intakes with carburetors should have the intake manifolds Cryogenic treated. If you have the block, heads, and all the internals Cryo treated, and thus stress relieved, it only makes sence to have the intake done as well. Bolting a non-Cryo intake to an engine that has been Cryogenic treated is only introducing stress back into the picture.
RING AND PINIONS: Cryogenic treated these parts will show less wear and last longer.
AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION PLANETARIES: By reducing wear and breakage of planetaries, the rest of the automatic transmission stays in proper alignment and therefore the rest of the transmission suffers less wear and breakage.
INPUT SHAFTS: By Cryogenic treating of the input shafts wear and alignment can be a huge benefit.
STANDARD TRANSMISSIONS: Even air shifted Pro Stock 5 speeds are operating with less wear and breakage. You should do the entire transmission completely disassembled, including the case.
BRAKE ROTORS: Cryogenic treatment closes the grain structure of the rotors resulting in an increased contact area for the pad to touch against and also reduces the abrasiveness of the rotor against the pad therefore increasing pad life
Normally you will experience a slight increase in Rockwell of a point or two, not much of a change, but still improvement in the right direction. The big improvement is stress relief and stabilization. Engine parts, transmission parts , or any non cryogenic treated parts you are thinking about are full of stress and just waiting to distort when it reaches racing temperatures. All machined parts can distort if they have not been stress relieved. Pistons can change from round to oval due to stress and temperature. When this happens the piston drags the cylinder wall which takes horsepower away, creates heat, and wears the cylinder walls. It then requires the engine builder to rebore the cylinders by 2 to 3 thousandths. Cylinders that have been Cryogenic treated will normally be out of round only a 1/4 to a 1/2 of a thousandths, a big decrease in wear from a non treated cylinder.
The end result of Cryogenics treatment of your engine is improved performance with far less wear and less breakage. What parts should be Cryo treated? All parts that wear, break, or distort. Sheet metal, electrical parts, water pumps, oil pumps, or fuel pumps should not be treated.
The following are various parts of an engine and what you can expect to occur after the Cryogenic treatment:
BLOCKS: The treatment of the engine blocks should not only result in improved performance with less wear and breakage, but the stress relief and stabilization of the block should result in reduced distortion in other parts such as crankshafts and camshafts since they are no longer flexing and distorting. One instance with an aluminum Rodeck engine running in a winged sprint car during a season showed the engine blew five times, each suffering from a broken connecting rod. The next season using the same block only Cryogenic treated the owner notified us that after 31 races he had no engine part failures. The big difference now was increased performance which resulted in new chassis set-ups.
CRANKSHAFTS AND RODS: Reducing the stress from the large mass made up of the crankshaft and rods can help them stay more in balance allowing for improved performance with reduced wear and breakage.
PISTON ASSEMBLIES: The piston assemblies should not be treated with the rings installed on the pistons. Wrist pins should not be treated at all. Treating the piston assembly will help the pistons and rings remain round therefore maintaining a better seal which translates to more constant compression , improved performance and reduced breakage.
HEADS: Heads both cast and aluminum are less prone to distortion and breakage following the Cryogenic treatment. If you have a set of good heads that are cracked send them to a good head repair company. They will grind out the crack, build up that portion that was cracked and machine it back to original specs. All these steps put stress back into the head, left untreated this will cause distortion and cracking can occur. Cryogenic treatment should be applied to the heads following repair then the finish machining can be done.
CAMSHAFTS: Although camshafts don’t seem to suffer breakage, wear can be a problem With Cryogenic treatment this wear can be greatly reduced.
VALVE SPRINGS: We have received many reports concerning the Cryogenic treatment of valve springs. Valve springs from 4-cycle go karts, quarter midgets, and motorcycles have often showed an increase in pressure (5-15%) and improved life of 100% or more. Automotive valve springs as well as Top Fuel drag cars have shown an increase in life.
PUSHRODS, LIFTERS, VALVES: These should all be treated but do not have any really good feedback on advantages.
ROCKER ARMS: Stock automotive to high quality rocker arms with bearings are good candidates for Cryogenics.
INTAKE MANIFOLDS: Automotive intakes with carburetors should have the intake manifolds Cryogenic treated. If you have the block, heads, and all the internals Cryo treated, and thus stress relieved, it only makes sence to have the intake done as well. Bolting a non-Cryo intake to an engine that has been Cryogenic treated is only introducing stress back into the picture.
RING AND PINIONS: Cryogenic treated these parts will show less wear and last longer.
AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION PLANETARIES: By reducing wear and breakage of planetaries, the rest of the automatic transmission stays in proper alignment and therefore the rest of the transmission suffers less wear and breakage.
INPUT SHAFTS: By Cryogenic treating of the input shafts wear and alignment can be a huge benefit.
STANDARD TRANSMISSIONS: Even air shifted Pro Stock 5 speeds are operating with less wear and breakage. You should do the entire transmission completely disassembled, including the case.
BRAKE ROTORS: Cryogenic treatment closes the grain structure of the rotors resulting in an increased contact area for the pad to touch against and also reduces the abrasiveness of the rotor against the pad therefore increasing pad life
Thread Starter
Honda-Tech Member
iTrader: (1)
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,683
Likes: 1
From: springfield, missouri, usa
Re: - Limits of Cryo treatment (B18TurboEF)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B18TurboEF »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Im sure if you have the mental capacity to understand the benifits of aftermarket piston/rod setups you could understand the question he asked. People need to stop posting usless comments like yours. "Why not", well maybe because he doesnt want to spend that much money??? If you don't have a helpful post then move on, find something worth posting about and stop wasting space
As for the original question I have to say I would like to find some insight on the cryo treatment also, you allways hear of it or shotpeening rods, but what is the realistic benifit? From what you say of %30 could it be assumed that they would be able to handle %30 more hp?</TD></TR></TABLE>
lol, yes forged rods and pistons are definately out of my price range right now. I am checking on the prices of cryo right now. I did kind of assume that it would transfer to 30% more HP capacity, but I really doubt that is correct .....
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by vaporboy12 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> RACING NEWS
Normally you will experience a slight increase in Rockwell of a point or two, not much of a change, but still improvement in the right direction. The big improvement is stress relief and stabilization. Engine parts, transmission parts , or any non cryogenic treated parts you are thinking about are full of stress and just waiting to distort when it reaches racing temperatures. All machined parts can distort if they have not been stress relieved. Pistons can change from round to oval due to stress and temperature. When this happens the piston drags the cylinder wall which takes horsepower away, creates heat, and wears the cylinder walls. It then requires the engine builder to rebore the cylinders by 2 to 3 thousandths. Cylinders that have been Cryogenic treated will normally be out of round only a 1/4 to a 1/2 of a thousandths, a big decrease in wear from a non treated cylinder.
The end result of Cryogenics treatment of your engine is improved performance with far less wear and less breakage. What parts should be Cryo treated? All parts that wear, break, or distort. Sheet metal, electrical parts, water pumps, oil pumps, or fuel pumps should not be treated.
The following are various parts of an engine and what you can expect to occur after the Cryogenic treatment:
CRANKSHAFTS AND RODS: Reducing the stress from the large mass made up of the crankshaft and rods can help them stay more in balance allowing for improved performance with reduced wear and breakage.
PISTON ASSEMBLIES: The piston assemblies should not be treated with the rings installed on the pistons. Wrist pins should not be treated at all. Treating the piston assembly will help the pistons and rings remain round therefore maintaining a better seal which translates to more constant compression , improved performance and reduced breakage.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Now thats some good info
Im sure if you have the mental capacity to understand the benifits of aftermarket piston/rod setups you could understand the question he asked. People need to stop posting usless comments like yours. "Why not", well maybe because he doesnt want to spend that much money??? If you don't have a helpful post then move on, find something worth posting about and stop wasting space
As for the original question I have to say I would like to find some insight on the cryo treatment also, you allways hear of it or shotpeening rods, but what is the realistic benifit? From what you say of %30 could it be assumed that they would be able to handle %30 more hp?</TD></TR></TABLE>
lol, yes forged rods and pistons are definately out of my price range right now. I am checking on the prices of cryo right now. I did kind of assume that it would transfer to 30% more HP capacity, but I really doubt that is correct .....
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by vaporboy12 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> RACING NEWS
Normally you will experience a slight increase in Rockwell of a point or two, not much of a change, but still improvement in the right direction. The big improvement is stress relief and stabilization. Engine parts, transmission parts , or any non cryogenic treated parts you are thinking about are full of stress and just waiting to distort when it reaches racing temperatures. All machined parts can distort if they have not been stress relieved. Pistons can change from round to oval due to stress and temperature. When this happens the piston drags the cylinder wall which takes horsepower away, creates heat, and wears the cylinder walls. It then requires the engine builder to rebore the cylinders by 2 to 3 thousandths. Cylinders that have been Cryogenic treated will normally be out of round only a 1/4 to a 1/2 of a thousandths, a big decrease in wear from a non treated cylinder.
The end result of Cryogenics treatment of your engine is improved performance with far less wear and less breakage. What parts should be Cryo treated? All parts that wear, break, or distort. Sheet metal, electrical parts, water pumps, oil pumps, or fuel pumps should not be treated.
The following are various parts of an engine and what you can expect to occur after the Cryogenic treatment:
CRANKSHAFTS AND RODS: Reducing the stress from the large mass made up of the crankshaft and rods can help them stay more in balance allowing for improved performance with reduced wear and breakage.
PISTON ASSEMBLIES: The piston assemblies should not be treated with the rings installed on the pistons. Wrist pins should not be treated at all. Treating the piston assembly will help the pistons and rings remain round therefore maintaining a better seal which translates to more constant compression , improved performance and reduced breakage.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Now thats some good info
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