myEKsedan

iTrader: (1)

After countless hours of research (and trust me there will be more before build goes into full effect) I believe I have came up with a build that I would like to do but would like more insight from people that have done turbo builds before.

Motor: B18C1 81.5mm Stock Sleaves
Head: B18C1 Stock valve size
Goal: Around 450whp on pump 93 octane
Budget: Fluctuating as of now...not set in stone. Just want a reliable build for a 20 mile a day work commute and weekend warrior.


As of right now this is the list I have. Like I said I would like more input before I start purchasing parts and getting the machine work done.

Block:

B18c1 81.5mm Stock Sleaves
LS Crank
Eagle LS H-Beam Rods
Weisco 10.0.1 pistons
GE Block Gaurd
ARP Main Studs
ARP Head Studs
Micropolished and Ballanced Crank

Head:

B18C1 with stock size valves
Ferrea 5000 Series valves
Ferrea valvesprings/retainers
Supertech Valve Guides

Fuel:
AEM fuel rail
Walboro 255 Fuel pump

A few questions that I have are what size injectors should I be looking into. I dont want to go to large but at the same time dont want to get some that are too small.

Also, what size head gasket should I look into?

So many unanswered questions which is why I dont want to start the build till I know exactally what will work best for my goals.

As far as a turbo...I have yet to choose one being that there are so many to choose from and I would like to get one that makes decent power towards my goal and is also a quality piece.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!!!

myEKsedan

iTrader: (1)

.

NotARaCist

iTrader: (1)

For fueling, you should look at this link, as well as this thread. If you're like me and want to know how the injector sizing is calculated, look at this one, too. Just remember - round up when picking an injector. If the calculators say 1100cc/min, get the next size or two up, like a 1500 or 1600cc/min. As for injector brand choice, there are a handful of good options out there, but talk to your tuner. Different tuners prefer different hardware, and a good tuner has done enough cars that they know what will work well. The AEM rail is unnecessary, unless you just want the "bling" piece under your hood. Your goals are achievable on stock boost referenced fuel pressure with the Walbro 255, as well.

Your parts selection looks reasonable, although you could definitely get away with bumping the static compression a little more. Remember - A turbo only gives you power when it's spooling. Static compression gives you power throughout the powerband. Personally, I bumped by LS build from the stock 9.2:1 to 9.4:1. It's a small bump, but every little bit counts.

As for turbo selection, there are only about a million different turbos out there, and I'm by no means an expert on any of them, but a GTX3076 should get you where you want to be. If I'm wrong there, I'm sure Shodan or WantBoost will correct me, and if they do, listen to them before listening to me - they know a LOT more about this than I do.

I don't see any mention of tuning software/hardware, but I'll address that the same way I address injector brand choice. Talk to your tuner, see what they're most comfortable with.

turbohatch96y7

iTrader: (15)

Not you too...

NotARaCist

iTrader: (1)

...Not me too what?

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

He's just being prissy lol

build sounds solid. I would stay with an OEM headgasket, they are regarded as the most reliable.. stock thickness as well. GE takes OEM headgaskets and laser cuts them for larger bores.

the block guard is useless, they don't do much and your power goal is fine for stock sleeves, the blockguards just cause coolant temp issues.

the aem fuel rail is also not needed... like a lot of fuel rails it has the same diameter bore as the stock rail, so it physically cannot flow more. a few fuel rails feature larger bores, up to half inch but you need new fuel lines and such.

I'll let someone else get into turbo sizing, I'm simply too tired right now to type that much lol

turbohatch96y7

iTrader: (15)

Attachment 526047

NotARaCist

iTrader: (1)

The current AEM rail is a little bit bigger than the OEM rail (emphasis on little bit...), but the OEM rail is physically large enough to get you near the quadruple digits. AEM's rail is a tiny bit bigger, and GE's rail is bigger than that. There's a whole bunch of fuel pulse tuning fun stuff involved in rails, and I can't even pretend to understand the fluid dynamics behind it.

There are three main reasons people get aftermarket rails. Reason 1 (and the most common) is "because I need it", which simply generally isn't true. Reason 2 (and probably nearly as common) is "because it looks good". We build our motors, we like to be able to show them off, and little color-coordinated bits under the hood always look good. Reason 3 is quite simple - because some of us want and/or need the extra gauges, holes, or whatever else. You can cram nitrous through it, keep an eye on your fuel pressure, or log your fuel temperatures.

Just like most things, it basically comes down to need, want, or don't understand.

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

I love when you post gifs of her... those facial expressions lol

the older aem rails were stock bore. I do recall them revising them some years ago. I have an old school ERL fuel rail and it has a monstrous bore, almost 3/4inch.

the main reason people swap to an aftermarket fuel rail is to run a remote regulator like an aeromotive or Weldon unit. stock rails and stock replacement rails don't have a second port on the timing end of the rail to facilitate this... this is mostly only beneficial on setups running a large fuel pump, as the stock rails regulator port and the regulator itself dont flow enough fuel to keep base pressure in check (it creeps on big pump small regulator setups)

as far as the fuel pulsation within the rail normally this is minimal. every time an injector fires there's a small pressure drop within the rail. this pulse can travel the length of the rail and cause fuel supply issues at the injector inlet.

however this is rarely a problem as most setups have more pump than required and the injectors aren't big enough, nor do they fire long enough to cause issues. I've only seen this as a problem on setups with huge injectors (2000cc+) or setups that are at the limit of what their pump can flow.

I'm guilty of color coordinating as well. it just looks nicer when there is a theme. I've even gone so far as to anodize or powdercoat bolts and nuts to match lol

NotARaCist

iTrader: (1)

The older rails I have no idea about. I just know the current gen is just about a ****hair larger - something like 1/32" or 1/16". The GE rail, I believe, is another 1/16" larger than that.

The main real mechanical reason, yes. That's why I made the three point differentiation Not everyone needs a remote FPR, and even if you do, there are a handful of stock-location options, as well as a couple fitting options that let you run a remote FPR on a stock rail.

Yeah, that's the basics of pulses, and if memory serves correctly, when running high duration or unnaturally high duty cycles, those pulses can rob pressure from the next injector trying to spray. Like you said, though (and like I said with rail flow support), that doesn't become an issue until you're closing in on the quadruple digits of power. I need to learn more about fuel pulsing - it's basically the only part of the system I don't have a solid mental grasp on.

Hey man, I'm right there with you. When we're spending literally thousands (if not tens of thousands) of dollars on an engine, there's nothing wrong with a couple hundred of that going to making it look good. It shows a certain level of pride in your work. All those little bling pieces just make you more proud to open the hood and say "yeah, I did that, it's mine."

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

yea plus it helps that I have a hookup on anodizing and powdercoating. just like I'm having my wheel centers and bolts anodized (hardcoat pink... nothing says owned like getting passed on a road course by a turbo civic with pink wheels lol) to match I'll be doing something similar in the engine bay, as my Wiggins clamps for my intercooler piping red and I'll be anodizing some components to match

I don't see any mention of motor mounts either. that much power and torque will kill stock mounts, especially the upper drivers side mount... the increase in torque will cause the motor to rock back and forth more ultimately killing stock mounts.

also your intercooler piping will force you to remove both front torque mounts, making stronger mounts that more important.

hasport is generally what everyone uses (and the cost is up there due to their name and high overhead) but I really like the innovate mounts. I've used them on multiple setups without issue.

also companies like avid, hasport, and innovate make really nice solid aluminum mounts, no poly. they are great for transferring power to the ground as there is a slight torque loss from the mounts flexing. also it takes the stress off of drivetrain components and the exhaust because when the motor doesnt move the axles don't flex and the front suspension doesn't deflect as much.

a good set of traction bars with a block mount will help as well

NotARaCist

iTrader: (1)

I've never needed to delete the front torque mounts for intercooler piping.

Solid mounts are great for torque transfer. They're also great for preventing wheel hop on take-off. Basically, they're great for keeping the power steady on the ground whenever you're hard on the throttle (initial launch, or exiting apexes). The do have one down-side, though - they'll transfer motor vibrations straight into the chassis with no dampening. You'll feel and hear EVERYTHING your motor is doing, and you'll find loose bolts that you didn't even know existed.

turbohatch96y7

iTrader: (15)

Nohing better than blocks of texts

TLDR

myEKsedan

iTrader: (1)

As far as the fuel rail goes, the only reason that I chose this rail is due to the fact that I already have it. I have the stock GSR rail if the pressure drop will be an issue, but I guess that I will see if that will be and issue during tuning.

I already have Innovative mounts installed on the car that I will be putting the engine in. They are the street (red) inserts. Do you think that these will be efficiant enough or should I go for a stiffer insert? Keep in mind that I already deleted the torque mounts...

For tuning...I already have a new P28 from HAmotorsports with the Moates Demon and Neptune RTP.

@NotARacist
Thanks for the input...
I'm working right now but will check the links when I get home.

@WantBoost
Thanks for you input as well man.

Any other suggestions as far as the parts that I have chosen?

Also, as far as static compression, @notaracist, I noticed that you said I should bump up the compression a little bit. Is this achieved by a thicker headgasket, different pistions, ect? Like I said, I've rebuilt quite a few stock motors and am a technician at BMW but this is my 1st turbo build and I am acting like a sponge right now and trying to absorb as much information as possible. Thanks a million!!

-Chris

turbohatch96y7

iTrader: (15)

Wtf you're a bmw tech and.... Nevermind.

Compression can be raised with longer rods taller pistons, THINNER headgasket.

You want higher compression to have a better powerband and more power down low in the rpm range.

That comes with a tradeoff of running better fuel and a better tuner.

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

I've had/have solid mounts on numerous cars... it's not as bad as you think. my Sr20 in my s13 has solid motor mounts and trans mount. you only notice vibrations at idle, it's like a seat massager lol. same for the b series...

and loose bolts aren't an issue if properly torqued and methods are taken to ensure they don't back off... but I safety wire everything I can..

myEKsedan

iTrader: (1)

I would rather stay away from complete solid mounts if possible. Traction bars were already on the list and the car already has full energy poly bushing's and coils ect. brakes are still stock and would like to upgrade that before swapping the motor in.

As far as turbo's go, I'm really interested on learning more about them. In depth decription's that explain why you choose this turbo or that turbo for each application.

I haven't chose a turbo because quite frankly, I don't feel like I know enough about them. I would like to run one of the Shodan's turbos but only because I have seen good numbers and people seem to love them.

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

The mounts you have now combined with a traction bar should be more than enough. I think it's ETD who makes a traction bar with an adjustable height mount (the spots for bolting it to the tow hooks have multiple holes that let you adjust the install height, perfect for lowered cars) also theirs have an optional motor brace which I would strongly suggest and they are very affordable. all of the offerings from other companies only have one set of holes to mount the bar and it hangs fairly low, not good for lowered cars because it will get beat to ****.

myEKsedan

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for the suggestion! Ill look into this traction bar setup.

myEKsedan

iTrader: (1)

still looking on advice as for what turbo to choose. If someone could chime in on that not it would be great.

-Chris

myEKsedan

iTrader: (1)

I was kind of looking into the GT3076R. Its rated for 525hp and from what I read people like it. Would this be a good choice? If so, what AR would be recommended? .63, .82? I would like a turbo that has more mid range power being that this will be more of a street car than a track car.

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

What's your budget for the turbo? What's your purpose.. define "street car".. more torque and midrange? etc. (Use the .63A/R in either case).

myEKsedan

iTrader: (1)

budget for turbo is around $1500. And yes more torque and midrange power. It will still be driven on the street regularly. And thanks Shodan, ive been waiting for you to chime in lol

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

Cool.

myEKsedan

iTrader: (1)

Ok...