1Bar GSR

Well 3 weeks ago I got mase to street tune my setup on 17psi no dyno just street. Well today I figure Imma go find out what I really made. So I go to these guys that say they know what they are doing and such. First thing is its a mustang dyno and they just got it recently in the past couple months. I do a couple pulls and they say they have problems reading the voltage from my spark plug wires. Then the guy proceeds to tell me I cant rev it past 8K because it sounds like my motor is going to blow up. They keep having querks saying that as soon as I hit vtec the tack on the computer goes straight to 8 and bounces all over the place and they cant get a proper read out. Well finally we get a ok run and on 15psi @ 7200rpms I get 350, but the thing is. On the dyno sheet as soon as my car hits 6200 rpms the graph drops down and then starts building again. I was wondering if anyone could explain this. I didnt keep the dyno sheets because these guys pissed me off saying my car has problems and that my tuner didnt know what he was doing and tuned it wrong. So I ended up ripping up the dyno sheets and not keeping them. On one of the dynos like the 3rd pull on 16psi when I got to 7800 rpms my buddy saw 403whp on the meter on the screen, but they said that wasnt a proper reading and WOULDNT print me the sheet.

So in general I was wondering why the dyno did that my graph kept increasing up until 6200 rpms then it would just drop off and start back up.

mellon

Hitting vtec around there?

DragSource

Sounds like the same kind of shitty uneducated service some of my pals have received at the local mustang dyno where I am from.

Sorry to hear about the bad dyno session.

I wonder if it was "really" dropping off considering all the problems they were having.

lol, I cracked up when I read that you riped up the charts - sounds like something I would have done if someone at the place I dyno'd told me my tuner sucked and that my car was about to blow. . .

They've probably just never experienced the powa of VTEC YO!

1Bar GSR

No my vtec kicks in at 4,300 and it carries all the way till redline... it feels like I have power up high still cause it pulls hard all the way till redline. Just I couldnt see if it did because they could dyno right... I was thinking it was the dyno because it didnt seem like they knew what they were doing and they were having problems from the get go. They didnt want to think it was themselves causing the problem. They even said my tuner probably didnt know what he was doing

D@nnY

if the boost drops off, the power will dip down, is your boost staying completely steady through out the entire rpm band?


chances are they are just hating, the car is tuned correctly if mase did it.

what boost controller did you have?

m R g S r

I'm sure he did. . .but I might as well ask abnyway. . .

Did mase tune the low cam first then the high cam?

95cxhatch

i am sure if Mase did it , then you are fine, i have heard a lot of good things about his tunes.

i am sure the guys that you went to are just retarded, go elsewhere if you can and keep us updated buddy, good luck with it.

0project dc2

iTrader: (1)

did the graph cut off in that area ? might be because your ignition isnt adequate and misfired a little aroudn there.

1Bar GSR

Well it happened at the exact same rpm everytime... it might be the ignition because I know the honda one can only support 400hp, but the thing is on 16lbs I pushed 403 at 8000rpms (because they wouldnt let me rev over ) then the next 2 runs were less and less... I just couldnt understand that! The car on the street pulls hard all the way through so I dont think the boost is dieing...

The boost controler I am using is the new greddy profec type-s, which is exactly like the first model. I dont think it is my car, because I had a good tuner and the setup is very complete except for the ignition and FPR... so I am getting those and going back to mase to get a complete tune. I just wanted others info.

Also when the ignition starts missfiring should the graph have sparatic jumps up and down? Because the graph was smooth honestly except right at 6200rpms where it dropped and looked like it was starting to build again...

0project dc2

iTrader: (1)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 1Bar GSR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Well it happened at the exact same rpm everytime... it might be the ignition because I know the honda one can only support 400hp, but the thing is on 16lbs I pushed 403 at 8000rpms (because they wouldnt let me rev over ) then the next 2 runs were less and less... I just couldnt understand that! The car on the street pulls hard all the way through so I dont think the boost is dieing...

The boost controler I am using is the new greddy profec type-s, which is exactly like the first model. I dont think it is my car, because I had a good tuner and the setup is very complete except for the ignition and FPR... so I am getting those and going back to mase to get a complete tune. I just wanted others info.

Also when the ignition starts missfiring should the graph have sparatic jumps up and down? Because the graph was smooth honestly except right at 6200rpms where it dropped and looked like it was starting to build again... </TD></TR></TABLE>


yeah if the igntion starts misfiring the graph will have sparatic jumps i dunno bout up and downs but it wont have a reading basically itll look like a dotted graph. when the engine misfires itll lose some power n start to build again.

some honda igntions give out at 250 WHp. ive had a few customers where that happend. you cant really feel it on the street unless its really bad.

a customer of mine made 330 WHP and it'd jump up top but driving it you coudlnt tell. but the dyno didnt lie.





btw wheres the pics you were gonna send me of the ic pipng i made for you and mikes cars ?

Rtype16

It all depends on what model of tach pickup they have on the Mustang dyno. They have to play with the settings for voltage on the pickup for it to read correctly. If it isn't setup right the tach signal will jump in and out and cause the dips in the graph. I know this because we have a mustang dyno. Once they get the tach worked out and the correct voltages entered this would not be a problem.

Also depending on which parameter they were watching on the screen if it said 403 than you made 403. I sure hope you didnt pay for the dyno if you decide to go back to them have them read the RPM by roller speed and than they don't have to use the tach signal.

1Bar GSR

Thats exactly it Rtype... They kept putting the voltage sensor on my spark plugs wires and they didnt know which one was for 1 and so they could of put it on the wrong spark plug wire? Because at first they put it on and when it wouldnt read right they said the spark plug wires were to close together and tried to seperate. Then we realized that they had put it on spark plug wire 2 and that is what I think messed up the dyno. They could get proper tach readings. So finally we looked and realized it and made them put it on 1 (which they said was wrong) so we put it on one and that is when I got my 403whp on 16lbs @8000 rpms which they still wouldnt let me rev past 8000 because that is where my window was set. So it was a horrible experience, but Im happy with that ONE number I got outa them! They kept saying my car was the problem BAH... Thanks everyone for the help! Anymore comments would be great.

BTW to the ignition it didnt look like that graph you posted it actually looked like:



Let me know what you think!?

VTC_CiViC

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 1Bar GSR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">They keep having querks saying that as soon as I hit vtec the tack on the computer goes straight to 8 and bounces all over the place and they cant get a proper read out. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I don't know what that is, but the same EXACT thing would happen to me at a particular dyno and only with the GSR. As soon as it would hit VTEC, the torque readout would go nuts and the tach readout goes limp, power readout was still normal though? This was a Dynojet with some new software btw.

1Bar GSR

I still think it might of been they couldnt get the right voltage or something... anyone else have comments?

D@nnY

Is the tach in your car jumping around or just the dynos pickup?

I believe They can put the pickup on any spark plug wire. the computer will multiply that by 4

I had a car with oem spark plug wires on the dyno and the pickup would screw up bad or not pick up anything...I put one of my msd 8.5 mm wires and the dyno picked it up fine...

1Bar GSR

No the tach in my car was just fine. IT was stead...

ComposiMo

I've seen similar stuff on a local Mustang Dyno, where the RPM just didn't want to work and read right and it caused the numbers to go all over the place... its also happened on a friends 224 Dynojet... in both situations, switching over to an optical rpm reading fixed the issues we were having.... that was probably more of a bandaid for whatever real problem there was (like adjusting settings), but we didn't have the time, and the optical was sitting right there.. hehe.

1Bar GSR

Ya that was the problem these guys had new clue about high revving engines. They were used to mustangs and such. They thought it sounded like my motor was gonna blow up at 7K rpms and made me stop the test. Lesson learned and it was still a great experience. Thank you everyone for your input =D

Built_For_Boost

I was wondering, the drop in power in the band was caused by VTEC.

Overlap = intake valve and exhaust valve, opening and closing, within the certain time frame, when both valves are open in the chamber at the same in a Suck, Squeeze, Bang. and Blow process.

In a Naturally Aspirated (NA) car, when VTEC kicks in, the cam timing are design to overlap.
The overlap of the valves gives more power in a NA car.

In a Turbo car, when VTEC kicks in, the overlap cause lost in power or even bog.
The overlap in In/Ex valves timing causes decompression in the cylinder chambers.
When VTEC turns on, there is no compression, no compression = no boost, no boost = no power.

There are some people who use adjustable cam gears to solve the problem.
The do make turbo camshafts to help the problem.

I hope this helped, If not, FYI.

SOHC_MShue

when using the inductive pickup for logging rpms with my lm1 wideband i actually have to place it around the ignition power wire. I've tried placing it around the plug wires and it simply won't pickup the right signal.

1Bar GSR

Well I didnt know that but it gives me something to think about... the only thing that makes me think that my car is fine is... when mase tuned it Im guessing he would of been able to know and 2 a friend of mine has 430 to the wheels on 17lbs or so and I hang exactly with him... so I would figure I would notice or could tell the difference if my car was lossing power? NOT TRYING TO BE MEAN just asking!

DaX

iTrader: (1)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by project dc2 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">


yeah if the igntion starts misfiring the graph will have sparatic jumps i dunno bout up and downs but it wont have a reading basically itll look like a dotted graph. when the engine misfires itll lose some power n start to build again.

some honda igntions give out at 250 WHp. ive had a few customers where that happend. you cant really feel it on the street unless its really bad.

a customer of mine made 330 WHP and it'd jump up top but driving it you coudlnt tell. but the dyno didnt lie.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I think I'm hovering right around 250whp, probably a little less, and my stock ignition system just took a crap on me.

I went with an MSD 6A, Blaster SS coil, modified cap, and I also built the trigger adapter circuit and am running ignitorless now. No more weak points.

1Bar GSR

Ya im going back to mase in a couple months put before that I need a new ignition getting the gt35r and fpr and heading back... so if it is the ignition its getting replaced, but I still think its the dyno and the lack of intelligence these guys had.

VTC_CiViC

Just out of curiosity, have you considered going to another dyno to verify? I don't know where in Fl you are, but there's like a trillion dyno's from Broward to Miami you could try.. hell there's even a dyno day down here in Miami this weekend if you're in the area.

tgreaves

What does your ignition timing look like around that point.. I would do a street datalog and monitor boost, air/fuel, and rpm and look at that.. If you see something strange with them at the rpms that your talking about then it might be your tune..

I would be willing to guess that its something else though, does the car run smooth under WOT around that rpm range, Im sure you would feel a dip like that in your powerband when driving on the street..