GreddyTegra

is it possible to run itb's and a turbo?

raiden571

people turbo m3s, so im gonna say yes. ud need to make some sort of plenum

Ex Member

Tony The Tiger has ITB and Turbo check him out.

Ex Member

Here are some pics of him making the plenium for his turbo setup and






Installed (with provisions for IACV as well




And this is his exact setup.

Tony The Tiger just pm me if Im wasting your bandwith .

Engine Response Video:
http://video.google.com/videop...70140


0-135 mph (216 km/h):
http://video.google.com/videop...32974


Setup as follows:

B18C1 GSR, 1.8L, 81.5mm bore 10.5:1 CR
Forged Internals (Wiseco/Eagles), and Dart block
GT2871R 56 trim comp. w/ 0.86 a/r @ 14 psi
HKS T25 log manifold
3" DP, 3" exhaust w/ Magaflow Muffler, and Car Sound Cat
Jenvey 51mm ITB's w/ custom manifold
2001 ITR cams, set at 0,0
RC 750's and Walbro 255 LPH pump
Stock ignition w/ MSD wires and rotor
NGK #9 plugs
AEM EMS, tuned for 94 oct pump gas
Water injection, single stage activated @ 5500RPM and > 7 psi
Clutchmasters Stage III Clutch and 8lb flywheel
USDM ITR transmission with stock FD (4.400)

boosted94cx

wow...easy on those nuts

Ex Member

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by boosted94cx &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">wow...easy on those nuts</TD></TR></TABLE>


Dude please dont come here with your garbage and insults. I just gave him some info so please if you have something to say @ least try and say something technical and not your useless posts.

00IntegrAllmotoR

iTrader: (1)

That manifold is so sexy, to bad its not on the market. Or I would still one real quick.

Lonnieboosted

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Turblow... &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">


Dude please dont come here with your garbage and insults. I just gave him some info so please if you have something to say @ least try and say something technical and not your useless posts.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I agree with you turblow,these guys been here for a year and have 900+ post of just garbage, why cant Honda-tech be like back in 2000. Anyway I remember back in 2000 or so a Puerto Rican was running a setup like this on a mirage that was running 7s, I think his name was Sakura, so yes it can be done.

IRONlung201

I was under the impression that the advantage to ITBs was that it eliminated the plenum? What would the benifite of them be when you stick a plenum on? I guess theres gotta be something to it, cuz tony's car is all buisness

njcrxsi

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by IRONlung201 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I was under the impression that the advantage to ITBs was that it eliminated the plenum? What would the benifite of them be when you stick a plenum on? I guess theres gotta be something to it, cuz tony's car is all buisness </TD></TR></TABLE>

because you still have 4 throttle bodys and good reponse and mid range....For ultimate power i would get a victor-x intake manifold over that setup anyday...............

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by GreddyTegra &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">is it possible to run itb's and a turbo?</TD></TR></TABLE>

some nissans come from the factory turbo and itb's,,but most of them swap out for a regular intake manifold when going for high power

Ckjeepin

You are an idiot.

tegedrex

Not that I dont think its a good idea and if it makes power then big ups to the "idea". But when you wrap 4 itb's up with a plenum isnt that what makes it an IM, now Im not trying to be a smart *** just my observation maybe someone could better explain it. Now I cold see if you already had itb's and didnt want to spring for a new IM, but this has been gone over before where as when you add velocity stacks to the IM that you create more power that way. By the looks of that mani its a smoth design throughout the plenum. The only thing that I see that I think is helping out this setup is by putting the TB/inlet neck right inbetween runner 2 & 3. Once again not bashing just want more info.

96 GSR-T

What people are failing to mention is the way Tony has his set up, it helps prevent starvation of any particular runner. It was just mentioned that these probably make less power than a VictorX, do you have any dyno sheets to back this claim up? or were you just stating opinion? I would like to see Tony do back to back dyno pulls of his beautiful manifold vs. a VictorX just for fun. I feel that if you have a large bore ITB, you can make power over a "VictorX" as long as its not too big.

teamsoy1320

do it just to be diffrent..i am doing this set up next year on gsxr itbs and a fabed up plenum...after seeing the throttly response from tony the tigers car it makes me want to mass produce this my self

QuarterMileMaster

I've got a question, it might be a little hard to pull off, but why not run the charge pipe to a reverse 4-1 collector (basically a 1-4 divider) and run an equal runner to each ITB?

BrokeAssWhiteboy

the advantage of the individual throttle body is that each cylinder gets an equal amount of air because the pressure will build before the throttle plate.

when the pressure builds after the throttle plate then it is up to the cyinder to pull in the air from a plenum that may not be that great of a design for equal cylinder feeding.

Tony the Tiger

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by njcrxsi &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

because you still have 4 throttle bodys and good reponse and mid range....For ultimate power i would get a victor-x intake manifold over that setup anyday...............

</TD></TR></TABLE>

For ultimate power, I'd rather just up the boost or swap to a larger turbo. No need to deal with all this fuss for peak numbers.


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
some nissans come from the factory turbo and itb's,,but most of them swap out for a regular intake manifold when going for high power
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Only if the car is an avid drag racer and sees no street time which apparently has no concern for midrange and throttle/engine response. I don't see any Skylines such as the Mines or a few HKS', delete their ITB's especially when the car sees a roadcourse

QuarterMileMaster

Here's a rough illustration of what I'm talking about above:

Tony the Tiger

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tegedrex &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Not that I dont think its a good idea and if it makes power then big ups to the "idea". But when you wrap 4 itb's up with a plenum isnt that what makes it an IM, now Im not trying to be a smart *** just my observation maybe someone could better explain it. Now I cold see if you already had itb's and didnt want to spring for a new IM, but this has been gone over before where as when you add velocity stacks to the IM that you create more power that way. By the looks of that mani its a smoth design throughout the plenum. The only thing that I see that I think is helping out this setup is by putting the TB/inlet neck right inbetween runner 2 & 3. Once again not bashing just want more info.</TD></TR></TABLE>

There are too many differences to point out especially regarding traditional single TB and individual throttlebodies. It's best to check out older Indy turbo motors and understand why they chose ITB's, and then try to reverse-engineer their designs to get an understanding.

The simplest thing to consider is that an engine couldn't really produce much more than what the turbocharger could feed it. The key is to be able to reap the benefits of transient response, powerband, and consistency within a certain power quota of a specific turbo. In my case, I have a GT2871R which at most, produces in a neighbourhood of 400-420 WHP, and by mating it with a few things, such as ITB's, higher compression, ITR cams, etc... I was merely trying to achieve the smoothest, responsive and streetable "400 WHP" turbo setup out there.

It's not a problem making peak numbers unless you are trying to breakthrough each bottleneck of the engine (that means it would be 700-800+ WHP), so having all the highest flowing intake manifold, huge turbo, etc... often won't help much on a medium power setup. At 400 WHP or so, a stock ITR intake manifold could probably do its job well. A Victor X for example, or even an intake manifold with internal velocity stacks and built beyond perfection, would only push power further up in the powerband to achieve highest flow possible. Unlike NA, even with the best intake manifold, the engine does not produce more power beyond the turbo's flow rating, so all it would do is put the pressure ratio lower and flow higher on the compresor map. That would yield very little power gain at lower RPM's, and only make the powerband peakier.

Instead of doing that, I chose to go with ITB's that would flow adequately for 400 WHP. It takes a little bit more PSI to push the same amount of airflow, but with the exhange of throttle response, linear powerband, and consistent running cylinders. There are a lot more to ITB's, and I still have lots of reading to do before I can elaborate more other than just my seat of the pants feel and a few videos

Tony the Tiger

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by QuarterMileMaster &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I've got a question, it might be a little hard to pull off, but why not run the charge pipe to a reverse 4-1 collector (basically a 1-4 divider) and run an equal runner to each ITB?</TD></TR></TABLE>

My initial plan was to build a reversed collector intake manifold like you've, but there are too many things to go wrong with that design. I don't think I was able to produce a 100% equal length design and to ensure that all runners would flow the same; or else, that would do a lot more harm than good. So I worked with a basic design that is easy to work with and less likely to go wrong, and the best was to follow OEM ITB turbo setups such as the RB26DETT, or the Pulsar GTi-R SR20DET with a plenum bolted onto the individual throttles.

QuarterMileMaster

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tony the Tiger &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

My initial plan was to build a reversed collector intake manifold like you've, but there are too many things to go wrong with that design. I don't think I was able to produce a 100% equal length design and to ensure that all runners would flow the same; or else, that would do a lot more harm than good. So I worked with a basic design that is easy to work with and less likely to go wrong, and the best was to follow OEM ITB turbo setups such as the RB26DETT, or the Pulsar GTi-R SR20DET with a plenum bolted onto the individual throttles.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yeah, that's pretty much what I figured. It's easy to think about but making it happen is another story. I love your setup by the way, freakin awesome.

GreddyTegra

thanks Turblow* for the nice info

GreddyTegra

btw that manifold looks sick

Boostage

How big where those bodies ? I have Hayabusa bodies and I think they are 40 something mm. like 43 or so.

Tony the Tiger

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Boostage &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">How big where those bodies ? I have Hayabusa bodies and I think they are 40 something mm. like 43 or so.</TD></TR></TABLE>

The ones I have are 51mm at the throttles