Jose-aka-Pedro

Hey guys whats up,

I am planning on buying a 92-93 Integra here in a few months
I am planing on going turbo,
I am just loking around and asking questions right now,

I have been looking at turbos and was wondering,
Which is better, an Internal or External wastegate? And why?
I was looking at the t25 and its internal,
And then I look at others and I'd have to get an external,

I am looking to make between 225WHP-250WHP
It would be a daily driver and I'd import a motor from
Hmotorsonline.com
And only get a few things, ARP studs etc..

Just wondering wether I should go internal or external

Thanks, Later

Jose-aka-Pedro

No one...

Haleiwa-Brando

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trentepic

internal waste gate and external waste gate ,kinda depends on ur situation, external makes more power in the long run, but if u get the greddy parts u can use it wid the internal it has, the internal off oem apps generally wont work with ac, the internal wastegate makes the hot side of the turbo larger, to house the waste gate, so its kinda in the way of the ac compressor
-Toby

Boosted Power

If you want to get to your 200-250whp..easiest way would be to throw on a T3 sized turbo or something larger. A T25 or td04/5 turbo will be too small.
To get there with a small turbo you will have to boost more.
I have a buddy with a 14b on a d16z6 running 7psi and he pushes 175whp.
I have another buddy running a straight T3 on a d16z6 at 7psi and he pushes 185whp.
That is a 10whp difference. There setup is basically alike just that the turbo is different.
Say at like 10psi you would be pushing 190+whp.
You having a B18 to start out with and if your engine is in top shape. Will and should push out 200+whp at 10psi on stock block with a T3 sized turbo or larger.

Internal wastegate is easiest to find, cause it comes stock with most factory turbos. Most aftermarket if you're buying new from a dealer/distributor then you should have the option of purchasing with an internal or external wastegate.

The external wastegate will hold more boost. With a change of a spring you can pretty much set it up for most boost applications.
If you're planning on making serious power, go with an external wastegate.

DragSource

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by trentepic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> internal waste gate and external waste gate ,kinda depends on ur situation, external makes more power in the long run, but if u get the greddy parts u can use it wid the internal it has</TD></TR></TABLE>

There is 1 benefit to an external wastegate as far as I am concerned.

1) They are capable of flowing more air (depending on size)

Trentpic, you are wrong on the above statement. A larger wastegate isn't going to "make more power" in any application. . . in fact, the smaller wastegate would probably "make more power" due to boost creep.

If you are running a turbo with a larger than usual compressor housing, you may want to consider an external wastegate.

You're only using the wastegate when you're boost level is trying to rise above the desired level. Therefore, it's only job is to expel EXCESS gases.

The LOWER the boost level you intend to run, the more likely you are to need an external wastegate.

. . . even the biggest externals will creep if they are not placed properly on the manifold.

Jose-aka-Pedro

Ok thanks guys,
I'll look into the T3,

I'm looking for 225WHP-250WHP with a stock block,
I plan on importing a mtoor (Motor the cars comes with from factory)
I dont plan to do almost anything to the blovk except,
ARP studs for the head etc...

Is my goal of 225-250WHP on a stock block with stock internals a waste of my time?

Thanks, guys, I have been looking around and I have read the turbocharging 101 many times

When does the T3 spool up at?
I do plan on going for more power in the future once I save up $1500 more to build the block internals and bottom end


Thanks, Later

DragSource

225 to 250 whp should be no problem on a totally stock b series so long as it's properly tuned.

Jose-aka-Pedro

Ok thanks,

How much is a Full port and polish? for the head and intake mani
Would I benifit from it???

Cuz I know the head doesnt flow air good

Thanks, Later

trentepic

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DragSource &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

There is 1 benefit to an external wastegate as far as I am concerned.

1) They are capable of flowing more air (depending on size)

Trentpic, you are wrong on the above statement. A larger wastegate isn't going to "make more power" in any application. . . in fact, the smaller wastegate would probably "make more power" due to boost creep.

If you are running a turbo with a larger than usual compressor housing, you may want to consider an external wastegate.

You're only using the wastegate when you're boost level is trying to rise above the desired level. Therefore, it's only job is to expel EXCESS gases.

The LOWER the boost level you intend to run, the more likely you are to need an external wastegate.

. . . even the biggest externals will creep if they are not placed properly on the manifold.</TD></TR></TABLE>
didnt say any thing of that nature sir.
another major benefit of external wastegate is, it has the oppurtunity to be placed in a more proper place to bleed excess gasses, with out disrupting flow of the gasses going through the turbo, and also if its atmo dump, or plummbed back in properly, again u have better flow, in the end it makes it so less of the exh has to go through the turbo, also would affect spool etc technichally, not sure how much though.
-Toby

DragSource

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 87Integra &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Ok thanks,

How much is a Full port and polish? for the head and intake mani
Would I benifit from it???

Cuz I know the head doesnt flow air good

Thanks, Later</TD></TR></TABLE>

It's a pretty penny. . . I'm not sure what head porting goes for these days. I know JG Engine Dynamics sells ported heads. . . and I like their porting, but I'm not a fan of their valvetrain. But all that aside, I believe they run $1200 or so from JG specifically. There are other equally qualified porters out there.

http://www.jgenginedynamics.com

beerbongskickass

Internal wastegates ******* blow *** if your trying to run a decent amount of boost. Just get an external gate, they are way more reliable and manage boost a lot better (more steady).

YiNYaNg

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 87Integra &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">No one...</TD></TR></TABLE>

Well think about this....

Both internal & external bypass the exhaust gas around the turbine....period...!


Internal wastegate=spring can't be changed...period..but is at low psi settings since it's a stock wastegate...

External wastegate=spring can be changed...

But if you have a boost controller you want to have a very low wastegate spring like stock, since you will be adjusting the boost with the boost controller & not soley depending on the spring....

So it's doesn't really matter if you go internal or external...if the power your planning to make is like 200-300hp....

And Lor what you were trying to say is this....CFM flow makes power not psi...!
But think about this too....you want to make boost full boost as soon as your motor hit's it's powerband....since we drive V4s our power band starts at 3k-redline...
So you want to find a turbo that makes full boost from then to redline....A T3 makes full boost from like 4k-redline...

If you find the right turbo size it'll hold you all the way through your whole power band...

People bash my 14b but it's really good infact for my displacement and setup...and I speak from experience...
Mine makes boost from 3k-redline and I'm very glad I didn't get a bigger turbo since it'll just be lagging and I rather make power through my whole power band than just high rpms...

And I know I know...bigger turbo flows more air...blah blah blah...and displacement factors etc....etc....
Too many factors....just find the right sized turbo so it doesn't lag in your powerband and choke top end and flows enough CFM for the power you plan to make...



Modified by H-T at 1:23 PM 6/4/2005

beerbongskickass

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by H-T &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">So it's doesn't really matter if you go internal or external...if the power your planning to make is like 200-300hp....</TD></TR></TABLE>

Well when your shitty internal wastegate starts creeping and spiking you might think differently...

trentepic

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by H-T &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Well think about this....

Both internal & external bypass the exhaust gas around the turbine....period...!


Internal wastegate=spring can't be changed...period..but is at low psi settings since it's a stock wastegate...

External wastegate=spring can be changed...

But if you have a boost controller you want to have a very low wastegate spring like stock, since you will be adjusting the boost with the boost controller & not soley depending on the spring....

Modified by H-T at 1:23 PM 6/4/2005</TD></TR></TABLE>

actually u dont wanna try to use the boost controller, to run more then double what the wastegate/ spring will do alone, apparently its causes some issues, spiking or creep i assume....
-Toby

YiNYaNg

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by beerbongskickass &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Well when your shitty internal wastegate starts creeping and spiking you might think differently...</TD></TR></TABLE>

I assume that happened to you...and I guess it happened because you had a shitty boost controller...

beerbongskickass

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by H-T &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I assume that happened to you...and I guess it happened because you had a shitty boost controller... </TD></TR></TABLE>

I know many people that use a TurboXS mbc without problems... good try though.