Muckman

iTrader: (2)

I need to trade my saturated 750s for bigger injectors to meet my power goals. So Im looking at bigger injectors which of course are all low impedance. Im trying to decide between a conventional resistor box or a more sophisticated injector driver. Im running the AEM EMS but I also need the ability to switch things back to stock injectors/sensors/ecu to pass inspection (OBD2).

What are your opinions on injector drivers? Is the AEM box reliable? Are the benefits worth $350? Or should I just stick with the more proven resistor box?

Turbo-charged

what size injectors are you planning on going with? the 1000's seem to be fine with a resistor box, anything bigger than that and i'd pick up a FJO driver.

Muckman

iTrader: (2)

Most likely 1000cc for gasoline but Im also considering tuning with E85 as its available locally now. In which case Id have to revamp my entire fuel system and prob go with 1600cc injectors.

Turbo-charged

just do yourself a favor and get a fjo driver box then

tony413

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Turbo-charged &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">just do yourself a favor and get a fjo driver box then </TD></TR></TABLE>

i 2nd FJO injector driver is only $190 good buy

Muckman

iTrader: (2)

Yeah I see its nearly half the price of the AEM driver.
Can you still get OEM resistor boxes NEW?

tony413

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Muckman &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Yeah I see its nearly half the price of the AEM driver.
Can you still get OEM resistor boxes NEW?</TD></TR></TABLE>

NO you usually only see them used, if your going to search new look under 90-93 honda accord. the benefit of having an injector driver is that you can set the pulse width of bigger injectors. 1600c.c. injectors take longer to open at idle and lower rpms than smaller injectors. a resistor box isnt going to control that for you. instead its only going to modify the signal to the injector from high impedence to low impedence.

boosted hybrid

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Muckman &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Most likely 1000cc for gasoline but Im also considering tuning with E85 as its available locally now. In which case Id have to revamp my entire fuel system and prob go with 1600cc injectors. </TD></TR></TABLE>

1600cc's actually run really well with a resistor box on e85. I have tuned several cars and idle/partial throttle drivability is similar to 1000cc injectors on gas.

I would not bother running a injector driver box unless you are using 1200 or 1600cc's on gas.

tony413

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by boosted hybrid &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

1600cc's actually run really well with a resistor box on e85. I have tuned several cars and idle/partial throttle drivability is similar to 1000cc injectors on gas.

I would not bother running a injector driver box unless you are using 1200 or 1600cc's on gas.</TD></TR></TABLE>

lol duh 1600cc's with E85 is still not even a 600hp ride
1600cc's with gas though is a monster especially when you need 6 of them

Legion

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tony413 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> the benefit of having an injector driver is that you can set the pulse width of bigger injectors. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Swing and a miss. The driver has nothing to do with pulse width. That's what the fuel maps in the tuning software are for.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">1600c.c. injectors take longer to open at idle and lower rpms than smaller injectors. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Strike 2. Larger injectors simply flow more, so at idle they require an incredibly small pulse width. Running peak/hold injectors off a resistor box and a saturated driver is just slow and sloppy, which is why it's hard to get a good idle.

Peak/hold injectors want to open quickly at 4 mA and then sit at 1 mA to close quickly. Since a dummy box simply creates a static 1 mA current, you still get the fast close, but not the fast open.

Slow open + small pulse = idle woes

Out of curiosity, have you ever once brought any new thoughts/ideas/information to this forum, or do you simply rove the archives, reading archaic threads for the sole purpose of regurgitating the information later on? I understand you simply want to sound knowledgeable and/or earn e-spect, but it's become quite sickening how hard you try to be "one of the guys." The very fact that you're conversing with people such as Jeff Evans and Muckman makes me wretch. And you've got J.Davis in your sig... The poor guy probably screams mercy every time you excrete one of your blabbering posts after his.

I mean honestly, the least you could do is poop out some correct information every once in a while.


"Hey guiz!1 Itz me, tony413! R I guru too?!"


If I've come across as an *******, it's only because you annoy the **** out of me

Ovrbst_T66

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tony413 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

lol duh 1600cc's with E85 is still not even a 600hp ride
1600cc's with gas though is a monster especially when you need 6 of them </TD></TR></TABLE>I think you can make 600hp no problem on 1600cc and e85.

tony413

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Legion &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Swing and a miss. The driver has nothing to do with pulse width. That's what the fuel maps in the tuning software are for.

Strike 2. Larger injectors simply flow more, so at idle they require an incredibly small pulse width. Running peak/hold injectors off a resistor box and a saturated driver is just slow and sloppy, which is why it's hard to get a good idle.

Peak/hold injectors want to open quickly at 4 mA and then sit at 1 mA to close quickly. Since a dummy box simply creates a static 1 mA current, you still get the fast close, but not the fast open.

Slow open + small pulse = idle woes

Out of curiosity, have you ever once brought any new thoughts/ideas/information to this forum, or do you simply rove the archives, reading archaic threads for the sole purpose of regurgitating the information later on? I understand you simply want to sound knowledgeable and/or earn e-spect, but it's become quite sickening how hard you try to be "one of the guys." The very fact that you're conversing with people such as Jeff Evans and Muckman makes me wretch. And you've got J.Davis in your sig... The poor guy probably screams mercy every time you excrete one of your blabbering posts after his.

I mean honestly, the least you could do is poop out some correct information every once in a while.


"Hey guiz!1 Itz me, tony413! R I guru too?!"


If I've come across as an *******, it's only because you annoy the **** out of me </TD></TR></TABLE>

bravo but i honestly could give a **** less about what you say

96 GSR-T

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Legion &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Swing and a miss. The driver has nothing to do with pulse width. That's what the fuel maps in the tuning software are for.

Strike 2. Larger injectors simply flow more, so at idle they require an incredibly small pulse width. Running peak/hold injectors off a resistor box and a saturated driver is just slow and sloppy, which is why it's hard to get a good idle.

Peak/hold injectors want to open quickly at 4 mA and then sit at 1 mA to close quickly. Since a dummy box simply creates a static 1 mA current, you still get the fast close, but not the fast open.

Slow open + small pulse = idle woes

Out of curiosity, have you ever once brought any new thoughts/ideas/information to this forum, or do you simply rove the archives, reading archaic threads for the sole purpose of regurgitating the information later on? I understand you simply want to sound knowledgeable and/or earn e-spect, but it's become quite sickening how hard you try to be "one of the guys." The very fact that you're conversing with people such as Jeff Evans and Muckman makes me wretch. And you've got J.Davis in your sig... The poor guy probably screams mercy every time you excrete one of your blabbering posts after his.

I mean honestly, the least you could do is poop out some correct information every once in a while.


"Hey guiz!1 Itz me, tony413! R I guru too?!"


If I've come across as an *******, it's only because you annoy the **** out of me </TD></TR></TABLE>

wow


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Ovrbst_T66 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I think you can make 600hp no problem on 1600cc and e85.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I made it on 1000's, it went lean but I did make it. I was going to buy the FJO box but I figured one more aftermarket electronic device to leave me stranded on the side of the road, so I just ran a resistor.

SPOOLINmatt

you coould prolly make 700 on e85 with 1600's and an eliminator pump.

96 GSR-T

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SPOOLINmatt &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">you coould prolly make 700 on e85 with 1600's and an eliminator pump.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I am pretty sure you can make way over 700 with 1600's and E85, I plan to retune in the summer or fall and try to make 700 on my current setup with 1600's and possibly ditching my inline 255 for a Bosch 044.

tony413

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 96 GSR-T &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I am pretty sure you can make way over 700 with 1600's and E85, I plan to retune in the summer or fall and try to make 700 on my current setup with 1600's and possibly ditching my inline 255 for a Bosch 044.</TD></TR></TABLE>

post up your results when you do dyno, a/f, and duty cycle

also when you made 600hp or over on 1000cc's and your walbro, what was your duty cycle ? what was your a/f ? did you drive at that a/f daily ?

boosted k20

alot of people have made well over 600whp on 1000cc injectors (C16/race gas that is) i made 620whp on 1000cc's and c16

96 GSR-T

This is how I see it, correct me if I am wrong plz, this data an est. and fuel pump limited

Have people made 650whp on 1000cc's and Gasoline with a 255hp..... yes

so we are going to say 1000cc's can support 650whp

if I am correct that says 1500's (using 1500 as a safety barrier) should be able to support 975whp on Gasoline pump limited.

So with 1500cc's that comes out to 650whp subtracting 33% for E85, add 10% or so to that figure for an Injector Driver and 5%ish for a Good Pump/Lines (non walbro) puts you over 700whp.

Criticism Encouraged

tony413

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by boosted k20 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">alot of people have made well over 600whp on 1000cc injectors (C16/race gas that is) i made 620whp on 1000cc's and c16</TD></TR></TABLE>

are you replying to me im lost ??? i wasnt even talking about race gasoline or gasoline in general. i was JOKING about ethanol ( alcohal not gasoline ) and how it takes a lot to get power out of it.

96 GSR-T

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tony413 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

are you replying to me im lost ??? i wasnt even talking about race gasoline or gasoline in general. i was JOKING about ethanol ( alcohal not gasoline ) and how it takes a lot to get power out of it. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I think he was replying to ovrboost

96 GSR-T

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Ovrbst_T66 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I think you can make 600hp no problem on 1600cc and e85.</TD></TR></TABLE>

you have a 13:1 H22 with a T66 ? Hows that working out for you?

ickyhonda

Now lets stop talking about how much power can be made whith whatever injectors and get back to the real question. For "HIS" setup, should he use a injector driver or resistor box? I have a similar setup and need an answer as well. We all know that the driver is better but is it worth $200?

nowtype

If he is using E85, the injectors are going to be open longer compared to gasoline which minimizes the part throttle and idling issue as B-H stated. If he wanted to run gasoline on 1600cc injectors, an injector driver would strongly suggested. In the end, injector drivers are rarely a terrible decision but when you are talking about a car running on 1600cc injectors you should be able to tolerate some idle and part throttle issues.

You can look back at my previous posts where I had a discussion about E85 with some other members whether it was cost effective or not and where your break even point was. As for sizing your fuel setup properly, take whatever you can do on gasoline and multiply it by .7 and that is approximately what the limits are with E85.

Lonnie

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Legion &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Swing and a miss. The driver has nothing to do with pulse width. That's what the fuel maps in the tuning software are for.

Strike 2. Larger injectors simply flow more, so at idle they require an incredibly small pulse width. Running peak/hold injectors off a resistor box and a saturated driver is just slow and sloppy, which is why it's hard to get a good idle.

Peak/hold injectors want to open quickly at 4 mA and then sit at 1 mA to close quickly. Since a dummy box simply creates a static 1 mA current, you still get the fast close, but not the fast open.

Slow open + small pulse = idle woes

Out of curiosity, have you ever once brought any new thoughts/ideas/information to this forum, or do you simply rove the archives, reading archaic threads for the sole purpose of regurgitating the information later on? I understand you simply want to sound knowledgeable and/or earn e-spect, but it's become quite sickening how hard you try to be "one of the guys." The very fact that you're conversing with people such as Jeff Evans and Muckman makes me wretch. And you've got J.Davis in your sig... The poor guy probably screams mercy every time you excrete one of your blabbering posts after his.

I mean honestly, the least you could do is poop out some correct information every once in a while.


"Hey guiz!1 Itz me, tony413! R I guru too?!"


If I've come across as an *******, it's only because you annoy the **** out of me </TD></TR></TABLE>

LOL

SPOOLINmatt

I ran 1000cc injectors like stock on a resistor box.

I ran 1600cc on a resistor box and it was rough getting it to idle at first but we got it to idle and i did that for a while.

Now i run my 1600's on an FJO driver and they idle GREAT although i have it set at 1250-1300 idle to keep things on ready.

Honestly you can go either way but if this is a daily car, id run an FJO box but with having to switch back and forth with emissions crap, resistor box would be easier i think or you can do what i did and wire your injector driver into the conversion harness.