<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JDM00SI &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">b16 is my last priority...
put a gsr...
or ls </TD></TR></TABLE>

a b16 would be as fast an LS swap and cost about the same money...BUT, he'd allready have a good tranny and a vtec head. I suggest this cause he can pick up an LS block at the same time and toss in rods/pistons/oil pump/water pump and still come out less than a GSR swap and he'd have a built LS/vtec with no downtime since he can drive ont eh b16 till the LS block is ready to drop in one afternoon.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by s13-t &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

a b16 would be as fast an LS swap and cost about the same money...BUT, he'd allready have a good tranny and a vtec head. I suggest this cause he can pick up an LS block at the same time and toss in rods/pistons/oil pump/water pump and still come out less than a GSR swap and he'd have a built LS/vtec with no downtime since he can drive ont eh b16 till the LS block is ready to drop in one afternoon.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Correction. A B16 would be SLOWER then an LS swap until about 90-100mph when it would slowly creep past.

 

Deleted

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Hybrid93Eg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Correction. A B16 would be SLOWER then an LS swap until about 90-100mph when it would slowly creep past.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Are you kidding? A LS will take a b16 out of the hole, and thats about it, b16 will walk down an LS after 40 easilly, better tranny, more power. If the b16 looses its driver error not the motor.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Bseriescivic5 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Are you kidding? A LS will take a b16 out of the hole, and thats about it, b16 will walk down an LS after 40 easilly, better tranny, more power. If the b16 looses its driver error not the motor.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I'm not kidding in any way. Torque is what accelerates a car. Hp takes over more on the top end of things. Too many B16 cockriders who just can't accept this simple fact.

 

i'm sorry if i consider anything put down to the ground by a car power, what do you consider power? Torque is a turning force, and that force is initiated by the engine

Now your last statement is seriously rediculous.honda make the k series bolt up in a eg/dc? wtf the reason i said if the b-series trans was so good they would have put it in the h/f series cars isbecause they were being released/developed around the same times, thats logical. Not honda buying back abunch of eg/dc chassis, putting different motors in them then reselling them, thats ignorant.

ls1 in an s2000, same thing seriously wtf would they make it so that they could put a compeditors engine in their chassis. and shep comes in on your "limp wristed cable shifter" bs. dsm trannies are cable shifted, along with srt4s

by the way, chill the f out. this is constructive conversation, when people like you get on here and get an attitude and shout out opinions, "b series tranny is better" but you hide that opinion by making it seem like its fact. Thats when the bandwagons start. for instance, you keep saying b series is lighter, ok whats the weight difference? ok, say the tranny is lighter, the rod shifter assembly weighs more than the cable assembly. or about your b-series tranny is better argument. is that fully true or has the b-series just been tested and given more chances than the h series?

lastly, there is a lack of big power h-series cars in the compeditors realm, so i'd like to know where you are getting all these "facts" at. i personally have seen 2 guys on here with the h2b and neither were anywhere close to even 400whp so how do you know that the b-series tranny can hold up to the h series torque when we get into the big power levels

 

Heres my .02 cents.

I have a 95 Integra. Stock B18B with 107K. Turbo'd with a Turbonetics T3/T4 .57 trim. On 8psi and studded snow tires I was able to take an 02 Mustang Bullitt GT from a 15 mph roll. My whole setup, INCLUDING CAR cost &lt;$4000.

So yeah, i vote for a b18b.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Hybrid93Eg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I'm not kidding in any way. Torque is what accelerates a car. Hp takes over more on the top end of things. Too many B16 cockriders who just can't accept this simple fact.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I agree that the LS will take a peg-legged b16 out of the hole and most likely beat it in 1/8 mile. But in no way will a stock LS vs stock B16 win in a 1/4 mile, the times may be close but the b16 is a faster motor PERIOD.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Bseriescivic5 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I agree that the LS will take a peg-legged b16 out of the hole and most likely beat it in 1/8 mile. But in no way will a stock LS vs stock B16 win in a 1/4 mile, the times may be close but the b16 is a faster motor PERIOD.</TD></TR></TABLE>

In the quarter? Yeah, its going to be close. Real close. I would much rather drive the LS then the B16 anyways. Speed isn't everything and when you have to wind the **** out of your car just to keep up with full sized trucks, it gets old... quick.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by b16hybridsol &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
i'm sorry if i consider anything put down to the ground by a car power, what do you consider power? Torque is a turning force, and that force is initiated by the engine

Now your last statement is seriously rediculous.honda make the k series bolt up in a eg/dc? wtf the reason i said if the b-series trans was so good they would have put it in the h/f series cars isbecause they were being released/developed around the same times, thats logical. Not honda buying back abunch of eg/dc chassis, putting different motors in them then reselling them, thats ignorant.

ls1 in an s2000, same thing seriously wtf would they make it so that they could put a compeditors engine in their chassis. and shep comes in on your "limp wristed cable shifter" bs. dsm trannies are cable shifted, along with srt4s

by the way, chill the f out. this is constructive conversation, when people like you get on here and get an attitude and shout out opinions, "b series tranny is better" but you hide that opinion by making it seem like its fact. Thats when the bandwagons start. for instance, you keep saying b series is lighter, ok whats the weight difference? ok, say the tranny is lighter, the rod shifter assembly weighs more than the cable assembly. or about your b-series tranny is better argument. is that fully true or has the b-series just been tested and given more chances than the h series?

lastly, there is a lack of big power h-series cars in the compeditors realm, so i'd like to know where you are getting all these "facts" at. i personally have seen 2 guys on here with the h2b and neither were anywhere close to even 400whp so how do you know that the b-series tranny can hold up to the h series torque when we get into the big power levels</TD></TR></TABLE>

haha, you argue points that were made to be as stupid as your original one.

as for fact, YES A B SERIES TRANNY IS LIGHTER. i don't know how much, i never bothered waying any of the 14 in the garage right now. How do i know it's lighter...i've had no less than 100 of each in my hands at various points and you can kinda tell. and the cable system weighs as much, if not more, than the rods. the cable stuff has the shifter assembly, the cables themselves, and the cable acutators on teh tranny...it's just as heavy if not more so.

and how do you knwo if a b will hold tq...******* look around you. look how many high hp/tq engines are out there running b series trannies with great success.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Hybrid93Eg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Correction. A B16 would be SLOWER then an LS swap until about 90-100mph when it would slowly creep past.</TD></TR></TABLE>

i've owned one of each....most of my friends have had one or the other at one point in time...and if ANYTHING..they're dead up. they make pretty much teh same power, but the ls does have a BIT more tq...but the b16's tranny MORE than makes up for it. The b16 will physically put down more tq to the ground over the LS.

 

I don't get on here to joke around, so sorry if i took your attempt at sarcasm seriously. fyi i've seen multiple 600whp b series cars literally eat 4th gear therefore distroying the whole tranny. corey parrish out from slowmotion ate up a stock gear set, then an after market gear set at mid 600whp. then check out oaks racing prelude because i recall it making 788whp on a stock tranny aside from a quaife differential, but what do i know i haven't had 100trannies in my hands

 

ok, so you had 1 b tranny example and 1 h series....wow, that must be the final ******* werd, huh?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by s13-t &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

i've owned one of each....most of my friends have had one or the other at one point in time...and if ANYTHING..they're dead up. they make pretty much teh same power, but the ls does have a BIT more tq...but the b16's tranny MORE than makes up for it. The b16 will physically put down more tq to the ground over the LS.</TD></TR></TABLE>

That depends on what gear you are speaking of I suppose if you want to state the it physically puts down more torque to the ground.. you also seem to mention that the difference in torque between the two motors (16lb ft) is only a BIT more. So lets take a look at the FACTS here, not just what the *** dyno reports..

B16 = 111lb ft. of torque
B18B = 127lb ft. of torque

B16 Tranny specs:

1st: 3.23
2nd: 2.105
3rd: 1.458
4th: 1.107
5th: .848
Final: 4.40:1

B18B Tranny specs:
1st: 3.23
2nd: 1.90
3rd: 1.269
4th: .966
5th: .714
Final: 4.66:1

Now lets look how much power each lays to the ground in respective gears...

Formula used = (gear x final) x torque = power output

B16 B18B
1st: 1577.532 1749.955
2nd: 1028.082 1029.385
3rd: 712.0872 687.521
4th: 540.658 523.361
5th: 414.163 386.832

As we can clearly see from the calculations, the B16 DOES put down SLIGHTLY more torque over the B18B in 3rd+. Is it "more then making up" the difference? Hardly. The thing I dont get is that in 3rd gear, the B16 puts down 25lb ft more torque, 17 in 4th, and 28 more in 5th. You yourself stated earlier that 16 was only a "bit" more torque... so I guess if you really want to get down to it, using your terms, its not really "more then making up" the difference until maybe 5th.

Anyways, my point was to show that while the B16 might put down more torque due to its gearing advantage, its not as much of an advantage as everyone seems to make it out to be. Not until 4th or 5th.. even then, its still not really a fair comparison given the LS's MAJOR handicap of a 4.266 final drive...

 

touche


i still say a b16 driven the same as an LS will win. it's also got more revs

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by s13-t &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">touche


i still say a b16 driven the same as an LS will win. it's also got more revs</TD></TR></TABLE>

Thats a REAL good thing considering that without those extra 1,000rpms it would be in real trouble. There is no doubt its SLIGHTLY quicker given a 1/4 mile race.

The question is "is the price difference worth it?"... or more importantly, "Do I really want to wind my car to 7,200rpms all the time just to be even with a 'lesser' setup?"


Modified by Hybrid93Eg at 5:37 PM 2/20/2006

 

see, now you're just being stupid

price wise...b16 swaps are uually around $1500 complete for obd1 and most LS swaps are between $1200-1500 obd1...at least around here.

and you have a fuckton more potential with teh b16 swap purley because you allready have the good tranny, the vtec head, the wiring harness, and the vtec ecu. you could easily toss in an LS block and vafc cheaper than you could buy a b16/gsr head and ecu and do the wiring and get the tighter ratio'd tranny.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by s13-t &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">see, now you're just being stupid

price wise...b16 swaps are uually around $1500 complete for obd1 and most LS swaps are between $1200-1500 obd1...at least around here.

and you have a fuckton more potential with teh b16 swap purley because you allready have the good tranny, the vtec head, the wiring harness, and the vtec ecu. you could easily toss in an LS block and vafc cheaper than you could buy a b16/gsr head and ecu and do the wiring and get the tighter ratio'd tranny.</TD></TR></TABLE>

You sure are a mouthy bastard, arent you? There is no need for personal attacks. Everyone has opnions. Get used to it.

Now. My friend JUST got a COMPLETE B18B swap for $1,100 picked up. Clean, nice setup. Even with your rather low price of $1,500 for a complete B16 swap price (H motors lists them at $2,250 for a hydro OBD-1 swap) it STILL leaves a difference of $400. Take the LS tranny, sell it for $350, now you have $750 "left over" so to speak. Get yourself the famed B16 tranny for $450 and take the other $350 and put it away. I am sure you can get a COMPLETE head for $500 later if you want and you have yourself the same damn thing. In the mean time while you save $200 (god that might be hard) you get to roll around with a FASTER setup and you won't have to wind the **** out of it everyday to keep up with traffic. The only difference here is you have to understand I made this work with your rediculously low B16 swap price. I think you are using the cable tranny price for the B16... in which case, yeah, those are cheap.

Remember, everyone has an opinion. The problem is sometimes some of us won't think with an open mind or we shut out any information we find to contradict what we believe.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by s13-t &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">ok, so you had 1 b tranny example and 1 h series....wow, that must be the final ******* werd, huh?


</TD></TR></TABLE>

i'd say one proven fact on each side is better than 15 of your ignorant close minded opinions.

thread starter get a b16 swap then down the road convert to a built ls/vtec

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Hybrid93Eg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You sure are a mouthy bastard, arent you? There is no need for personal attacks. Everyone has opnions. Get used to it.

Now. My friend JUST got a COMPLETE B18B swap for $1,100 picked up. Clean, nice setup. Even with your rather low price of $1,500 for a complete B16 swap price (H motors lists them at $2,250 for a hydro OBD-1 swap) it STILL leaves a difference of $400. Take the LS tranny, sell it for $350, now you have $750 "left over" so to speak. Get yourself the famed B16 tranny for $450 and take the other $350 and put it away. I am sure you can get a COMPLETE head for $500 later if you want and you have yourself the same damn thing. In the mean time while you save $200 (god that might be hard) you get to roll around with a FASTER setup and you won't have to wind the **** out of it everyday to keep up with traffic. The only difference here is you have to understand I made this work with your rediculously low B16 swap price. I think you are using the cable tranny price for the B16... in which case, yeah, those are cheap.

Remember, everyone has an opinion. The problem is sometimes some of us won't think with an open mind or we shut out any information we find to contradict what we believe. </TD></TR></TABLE>

cable b16 swaps go for around $1000-1200 around here. so if you way WOULD work out...which is possible, i won't say it's not...you've still got more work in getting/selling parts than you would with my way...but, oh well...either would work

 

wow

this has gotten a bit out of hand


but i cant find swap for an ODB1 B16 for anywhere near the price of an LS

and im just gunna turbo it anyways


so it converting it to vtec really worth all the trouble and the extra money

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by doodooheadfart &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">wow

this has gotten a bit out of hand


but i cant find swap for an ODB1 B16 for anywhere near the price of an LS

and im just gunna turbo it anyways


so it converting it to vtec really worth all the trouble and the extra money</TD></TR></TABLE>

I'd leave the LS as is and just up the boost. Turbo LS's pull VERY well when tuned decently.

 

buy a b16 swap

buy an ls shortblock

ls vtec b16 trans hands down

 

yeah im pretty convinced to get a B16 thrans but is it worth all the trouble to convert it to vtec?

 

its worth it if you plan to boost later down the roda, the VTEC head flows much better than the LS, you will make alot more power with the b16 head once under boost.