echo999

For you Hondata users, what values are you using for ignition timing
in and out of boost?

Does Hondata come with the stock ignition maps, or do they provide you with
some base maps?

For these maps, are the load vs. rpm values for ignition identical to the values of
the stock ECU?

VaporTrail: How do you tune the ignition timing on the street?

Thanks!

prophet

although i'm not 100% certain, i believe with hondata you are using stock ignition timing since your basemap pretty much runs off the ecu. You can deviate from the stock settings but if i'm not mistaken you still use it with the basemap to save dyno time.

echo999

ok, so for the condition where the map sensor detects vacuum,
it uses the stock ignition maps (and maybe alters the signal)...

How about when under boost? There isn't stock ignition maps for positive
vacuum...

echo999

I found this from the Hondata site. I guess I can use these values.


These values are conservative right? I might NOT make the most power with these
values, but I should be safe to boost on these right?


[Modified by echo999, 7:53 PM 1/8/2003]

Doodoo

If you get the Stage4/S200 with Rom Editor you will get base maps with all these valves preset.

BoostedH23a1

how the hell do u read that thing

Speedworks801

You should make good power with the base map. Your specific needs can be met better on a dyno with some fine tuning, but these are good base values. That's the best place to start.

echo999

Awesome... I'm actually going to use the Hondata maps to interpolate
values for the EMS.

Doodoo

I am still learning but you follow it like a line. As RPMs increase down, so vacuum decreases(moves to right). You start at 16 degrees(column 3, row 725RPMs, for example.) and move toward the lower right corner. Along the wat ignition is advancing, a little.

You really have to watch it from a datalogged point of view to see what your motor is actually doing at each point.

hybrid901

I'm only running 17 degrees at 18psi right now. Can I bump it up to 20 degrees like hondata has there?

I', sure this is a dumb question but does the timing on teh distributor change teh timing on the hondata?

Doodoo

Hold up there folks!! I am a newbie to Hondata. I wouldn't change anything unless you dynoed or know someone that has done it.
I am on my lappy now thrying to figure everything out as I type this...

ekb18c

Yes, it does. You can set it up on Hondata system however.. You will have to time your car then enter the timing on hondata, from there the values you entered will correctly reflect on the timing map.


edit - use a base ignition map then go tuning and start being a little more agressive on the timing map, but not too agressive.


[Modified by ekb18c, 2:30 PM 1/8/2003]

JT

Don't forget the other important factor -> fuel map. It's not safe to boost if the fuel map is not right for your setup.

DIRep972

iTrader: (1)

this is basically a stock honda ignition map where the regular timing values have been multiplied to .75deg retard per psi. that is probably the BEST place to start. tune ur fuel w/ that timing map and then go back and add timing where u want it.

when vaportrail tuned my car we started out with this map i believe, or a slightly modified vaportrailed version and then when we tuned the fuel he changed the timing to .7deg retard per psi. i didnt really gain any power from that so we just left it there, i wasnt ready to blow it up yet. plenty of people have told me i could run more timing but i dont care, im a fan of the more boost/less timing style of tuning.


[Modified by DIRep974, 6:22 PM 1/8/2003]

VaporTrail

Hmm, no, that's not a good map right there. The values are not extrapolated at all, timing should increase with rpm (to a point). Follow a column from top to bottom, you'll see what I mean. I don't really mess with the vaccum portion of the maps unless the vehicle is supercharged, then i will alter a few things around the map, especially the transition to avoid tip in detonation. This is merely the tip of the iceberg, and if you don't know, you really should be very careful. I start with a conservative timing value, say like 1deg retard until I get the fuel mapping correct, then I go to .7 ret and tweak from there. I don't get crazy with timing unless there is an abundance of octane available, and a EGT gauge to keep an eye on.

DIRep972

iTrader: (1)

listen to john! not me!

dbman96

Running lower compression, like say that map is for a GSR, (and I believe the vacuum timing values above are in fact identical to the stock GSR ecu)... would you expect to advance the timing in vacuum somewhat to run on a lower compression engine like an LS or B20B... or of course if you run low-comp pistons in an FI setup?

echo999

Timing is being advanced as RPM increases... I don't follow you.

If I look at any column, timing is increasing (advancing) as RPM increases.

As boost increases for any particular RPM, timing is retarded (decreases)...

What's wrong?

gzrmoto

hondata comes with a base map and it great to start out with; even though it is on the conservative side on timing. put the car on the dyno and add timing where it is needed depending on the motor.

echo999

I totally understand that... maps are conservative, put car on dyno to tune the
ignition....

BUT is the map that I posted wrong? Is the MAP a decent map that I can
boost on (I don't care if I'm making the most power I can.. just that it's
conservative, and I won't have too much compression in any cylinders)

Speedworks801

I still think that map is plenty conservative. If you want Vaportrail's advice, you should do what he says though.

I am sure, an even more conservative approach will never hurt.

Best of luck.

[Modified by Speedworks801, 3:32 PM 1/13/2003]


[Modified by Speedworks801, 3:38 PM 1/13/2003]