CavemanXXL

Hey fellas,

My Current Setup:

-B16A2 Block (1973cc = 2LT )
-B18 Crank
-84mm 9cr CP Stroker Pistons(custom made)
-Manley Turbo Rods
-Darton Sleeves
-Blueridge Ramhorn mani with AC and PS
-T3/T4 Hybrid Turbo(I'm guessing between GT30 and GT35 but definetely bigger than GT30)
-1.1 Bar Cont. boost
-Precision 780CC Injectors
-Aeromotive 340LPH Fuel Pump
-Head, intake mani., transmission, ignition,...etc. is STOCK B16A2.

Atm. using BRK8EIX Iridium sparks. Before that i tried BKR7EN11 NORMAL sparks and BKR6EN11 normal sparks.

The problem i'm having is tiny missfires. Happens 1 or 2 times during 5th gear like a "cough" but i can rev. till end easily...

The funny thing is when i replace the sparks with the new ones everything is fine for like few hundred miles than it starts to happen again. When i take out the old sparks everything seems fine but like i said if i replace the sparks with the new ones there is no more missfires. With the BKR7 and BKR6 normal sparks it is even worse, it goes "broken" after a run or two...

Editional info:

-I rev. 8000rpm(plan to rev. up to 8500rpm later on the way).
-Ignition is like 14, i know it should be like 17-18 but i thing this is due to poor ignition.
-Using S300 V2 as my ECU.


Now, i think i should upgrade my ignition BUT i don't wanna spend tons of money because i won't go increase my boost since this is a daily driven car. And the power i have is more than enough for me.

Something like Accel Honda/Acura Replacement Internal Ignition Coil and a good set of spark wires would be enough ?

Or

Should i get something like a MSD or M&W kit ? I know M&W is the best solution but like i said can't spend tons of money on it if an Accel Internal İgnition Coil replacement is enough since i won't go over my current level of boost...

Thanks in advance for the help...

93h2beg

before you throw tons of money at something that may not be the problem, nail it down first.
does it only happen in 5th?
what rpm?
can you get it to happen when you want it to?
does it happen with a full tank of gas or only when your under 1/2?
How are all the engine grounds?
do you know what your AFR is when it "coughs?"
how much PSI is it getting when it happens? under full load?
what are your plug gaps set at?

CavemanXXL

Cool questions and attitude man thanks. Let's get down to it.

- It happens on 4th too. With the normal sparks when it happens, it happens nearly every gear, when i push it further more(with normal sparks) it doesn't even rev. beyond 5000-5100rpm(full boost), it just gets stuck at that rev.(missfire). Current situation is that it happened at 4th gear once and 5th gear 2 times. But like i said i could rev until redline without a problem(except *coughs* ofc.).

- No, i can't get it to happen when i want.

- Gas amount doesn't matter.

- Engine grounds are good but when i use condenser(buddy club blue one), it happens quicker, actually i burnt my original coil with it, so when i replaced my coil with another oem one i removed buddy club condenser.

- AFR is good, but i can't point or tell "exactly" since it does do it randomly, but overall afr is really nice. 12.8 after vtec, goes richer till rev. limit and goes into limiter at 10.8afr for a split second.

- Around 16psi i think since we use BAR as our boost parameter but it happens only after full boost and it is 1.1Bar.

- I also played with plug gaps with the normal sparks too. They were 1mm stock i believe, i made them 0.8mm but not much changed. BKR8IEX Iridium ones are stock atm.

93h2beg

so this is what i keyed in on.
was the new coil "new" or used oem?

Have you had any other issues with electrical?

splices in wires?

Have you tried to close your gap down a wee bit??? (this is the first thing I would try. ) With your description of pushing it harder and it wont rev, it sounds to me like it is running out of something, either air, fuel or ignition.
If your AFRS are good and don't go excessively lean or rich then its not fuel. You don't have an issues all the time with it running right, ( air delivery) it seems to me that it could be in your ignition. Try closing your plug gap a little and see if that helps it. its is very possible you are experiencing your spark plugs being blown out.
Boost,and the normal cylinder pressure create a lot of turbulence in a cylinder. It can cause the plugs to blow out, and or round the electrode quickly. which causes all sorts of ignition fun.
I am assuming you have had this running for a while , and this is a new issue???

93h2beg

31 thous is still sounds kinda wide for your application. try closer to .6 see how it runs then. If closing your plugs negatively effects your idle, then they are closed tooooooo much, and open then up just bit from there. this is the fine tuning art, and it may require a ton of patience.

CavemanXXL

I see, but i rather spend a bit money to avoid any future problems or problem possibilities.

I found a kit:

https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.n...e8166c845fc16f

Really cheap, i think this should solve all my problems, what you think ?

Muckman

iTrader: (2)

.031" is huge. Just try gapping to .020" before you spend money.

93h2beg

I think its a bit of overkill for your current setup. gap the plugs smaller and let us know how much better it runs first.

Turbo-LS

iTrader: (4)

That kit wont do anything for your setup. Just gap the plugs down your running to much gap and experiencing spark blow out. Stock ignitions are weak and need tight gaps when boosted.

If you want to spend money PM me ill give you the info on a stout affordable setup.

CavemanXXL

Ok, i'll gap the plugs down but i really think my ignition is not powerfull enough since my timing is 3-4 degrees lower than what it should be and it starts to detonate if i go 16 or over. I got the kit for a REALLY CHEAP price but haven't installed it yet. But i think a more powerfull coil sounds really safe to me...

Other thing i wanna ask is what is the difference between NGK BKR8IEX Iridiums and NGK ZFR5FGP Platinum Alloy sparks ? I have a free set from a friend, can i use it on my B16A2 engine ?

93h2beg

the issue lies in your plug gap, yes a stronger coil MAY help, but what is happening is compression and added boost in a cylinder make it harder for the spark to jump the gap from the electrode to the ground. WHY you may ask? Well, air is (essentially) non conductive, its not until we add the HCs (gas). So with the added air or resistance in the cylinder it makes the spark jump to the closest, easiest ground which may not be the ground strap on the plug. It may be the spark plug tube in the head. The easiest path may very well not be the spark plug at all. This can cause a misfire- or a "cough". so with less of a gap, it will have a harder time blowing out. I was unable to find a video of this, i saw it a few weeks ago in class. sorry

CavemanXXL

Thanks for the usefull info. What about the sparks ? Platinum ones vs the iridium ones that i wrote on my previous post ?

93h2beg

the only reason auto manufactures went to plat and irid. is to increase longevity. they can claim 100k out of plugs- I would never go 100k on a set of plugs, for various reasons, but people do and have with no issues. for me id change them at 50k, what 20 bucks in plugs to make sure its all 100%. If you need to know why google-

f150 spark plug seizure.

The main issues that arise with plat or IR plugs are that the double plat, or IR have the tinyist amount of these metals not hem. When gapped with a traditional gapped (ring slide style) you had better believe that you are removing that metal off the ground and electrode. so now your back to an almost basic plug. LOL. If you can get a set of IR plugs with the correct gap for free they are probably the best choose, but still don't think under a turbo application that these plugs will last 100K.

CavemanXXL

Now we are on stock ignition, didn't buy anything. Just OEM Ignition + BKR8EIX sparks.

*coughs* are gone(due to another reason), everything is fine but our ignition is too low. Around 13. Which should be around 17-18. When we switch to 16 it detonates like crazy. Why would that be ? And fuel is good enough. We have another car with 84mm same pistons, same engine, with 18 advance...

93h2beg

so what was the cause of the coughs?

CavemanXXL

3rd and 4th sparks was a little loose. I know it was a rookie mistake but at least we fixed it.

93h2beg

it happens. now u want to add more timing, why?
because your other car can run it??? o well... there are minuscule varies from one engine to another even with the same parts. Im sure we have all experienced this to some degree,like one stock GSR is .5 a sec faster than another, no matter who is driving. Just because one can take more timing and not detonate does not mean your should be able to do the same thing. Something as dumb as a different head gasket could be causing it. Have u checked the psi in each cylinder per yours, and against the other engine with the SAME gauge??? I have 3 different compression gauges, all read differently on the same engine- from 180- 255, harbor freight at the low end, craftsman in the middle and matco at the high end. So don't compare #'s to #'s unless its on the same gauge.

CavemanXXL

Ok, now... I don't wanna start a new thread so i'll continue from this one...

New developments...

One of the spark's nail has thorn away... My compressions are good and equal, there is no visible damage(as far as we can see through the spark hole), and there is nothing in the explosion chamber(bad english?) which we checked via a thin magnet thingy. I still have ignition problems. My advance is so low due to poor ignition. So, i want to eliminate the ignition problem for good...

I could go with;

A) M&W Module, Crane Blaster Coil, MSD Cap, NGK Wires, and a used OEM Distributor(or a brand new aftermarket one)

B) AEM Ems(Series 2 or EMS-4) and AEM COP Kit...(1 question though, must i buy AEM Igniter module with this kit ?)

I'm leaning towards AEM since i'd eliminate distributor system for good(that'd be a relief tbh), but on the other hand S300 is a really good and easy to use system for this class of power and if i get the M&W kit i'd be also be good by means of ignition. And my tuner never tuned an AEM Ems car so it'll be safer for us with the M&W kit. But price wise, they are similar.

PS: Please don't forget that my current distributor is an Ebay one with the OEM coil and OEM module inside(replaced myself).

PS 2: I've a seriously good car electrician expert friend and i made him check the whole car for electrical leakage and he said my car is rock solid electrically.

PS 3: I'll try reducing the spark gaps even further. It is originally 1.0mm, i reduced them to 0.8mm, should i try 0.6 or would it cause any negative effect on the car ?

PS 4: Please answer the question on my second choice for ignition kits.

As usual, thanks in advance for the tremendous help you provide fellas...

turbociv910

get rid of the iridium, put in bkr7e or bkr7es-11.

CavemanXXL

As i said in my first post that we've already tried those. I think we tried 3 sets of them. 1 set original GAP, 2 sets with 0.8 GAP. No joy... Best result we got so far is the BKR8EIX.

4genaccordfreak

Did you gap down the plugs like the others have suggested?

I only ask because what you originally had them set to was far too wide for a stock ignition at that boost level.

Gap down your plugs to ATLEAST .020" (or 0.5mm), and see what happens.

CavemanXXL

Isn't 0.5mm too much ? I mean, the original gap of the sparks are 1.0mm. We are cutting in half, is it OK to do so ?

Muckman

iTrader: (2)

You have 4 people in this thread telling you to close the gap more. Test with a smaller gap. Some people run gaps even smaller than .020" (0.5mm)

CavemanXXL

If you say that it is safe to do so, i'm closing my spark gaps to 0.5mm tomorrow. I'll let you know the results...

4genaccordfreak

I'm currently running .020" (0.5mm) gap on my BKR7E's, at almost 20psi (1.35bar). They work great. No issues, good burn pattern, no fouling or spark blow-out.