http://hondata.com/techfuelpump.html

Someone posted this link on the fuel pumps thread below; I'm just terribly confused after looking at it... Hondata claims "Honda computers will easily idle a 1600cc engine on 720cc injectors." If this is the case, why the hell does anyone buy standalone computers or rising rate FPRs? I thought the largest injectors we could idle are 310s. Is this a typo? Do they mean "HONDATA computers will easily idle... on 720cc injectors"?????

Other question; I've got an Apex V-AFC on the way into my car; with that leaning things out, can I run bigger injectors than my 310s?

My thought is, I can't get enough fuel on 310s because even my inline pump is crapping out at high pressure; but if I can run bigger injectors, I have many many more options.

Thanks in advance for ANY help!!!!

 

What Doug meant when he said that is the Hondata system can allow you to idle 720cc injectors.

 

that bugger got my hopes up. they really should correct that.

Any thoughts on how big you can go with a V-AFC to lean things down a bit?

 

Well he should clarify that, but a hondata ecu is essentially a moded stock Honda Ecu. Doug has actually made the stock ecu into a stand alone unit.

 

You can 550cc to wokr at idle using the VAFC but its not reccommend solution. I rather use the VAFC with smaller injector say a 370cc its a whole lot easier to tune.

 

to everyone who knows injectors, i just read in turbo (lisa kubo on the cover aka. racer of the year)...in the tech scene article there was a thing about fuel starvation. in particular, it said if you install larger injectors that you must "trim the injector's duty cycle at idle" so it does not idle poorly, or worse, "wash the oil off your cylinder walls and destroy your engine!". i'm sure no one wants that so how is the injector's duty cycle trimmed? there may be several ways, i guess, and it probably depends on the application?

 

my car runs fine with a hondata and 750cc injectors

 

What type injectors?please give me all the details. Well except how U tuned the Hondata.

 

to trim the injector duty cycle is easy. It's all in the programming. All you have to do with the Hondata is edit the base features (such as displacement, injector size), and it does all the calculations and adjustments for you.

 

Well, its not exactly THAT simple, but having full control over injector duty is
really nice. Unlike those AFC/SFCs that dont do anything at all.

 

sorry, I gave the condensed version, but it is pretty easy to do. I'd only use an AFC on something that's a mild version n/a car after using the Hondata

 

Yeah my ride idles with 550cc injectors and an AFC... but the setup isn't good... i need a full standalone to make it better...

I mean don't get me wrong... it idles fine... but the whole idea of guessing at the fuel as you boost just is plain wrong... i proper ECU that takes into consideration the actual boost pressure and delivers the fuel at the appropriate time is definately the way to go...

 

I would love to get a hondata but as I understand it (and please correct me if I'm wrong) since I have an OBD-II car, I would have to first buy an OBD-I ECU, then have it hondata modified, then tuned... that's going to get me up near $1000 at least, right? I'm sure it's the better solution but at the moment it's a lot of money I don't have. However since I already have a v-afc, it would not cost too much to get some 450 or 550 cc injectors and tune it to run acceptably (and certainly better than it has been on 310s with the damn Cartech FMU) until I can afford to get something more effective (and of course be able to sell my V-AFC for only slightly less than I paid for it). That said, does anyone think this is a good idea for an affordable solution or should I go back to trying to find a fuel pump that can push eleventy billion psi of rail pressure?

 

don't forget, if you buy a Hondata, you can also sell your 310's, as well as your Cartech, the VAFC, and any other piggy backs and bandaids you might have. You can also stick with your current pump, because you won't have to run crazy high fuel pressure.

Compare it to the piggy backs, and you'll see that the Hondata isn't that expensive really. On top of that, you get all the benefits the Hondata has to offer that only other stand alones can offer, and then some. If you plan on keeping your car, and making if faster and reliable, you might as well skip the formalities and just buy a Hondata system.

 

am I correct in thinking I have to get an OBD1 ECU to go hondata? How much would that add to the cost of the hondata? I'm seriously considering it as a future investment.

 

When I was investigating going to a standalone I looked at the Hondata stage 4b, but I couldn't justify the price. I also looked at the Haltech as well and these are the prices I worked out:

Without Lambda meter the Haltech is: $1195.00
Boost control kit: $80.00
Sell my AVC-R for +$250.00
================
Estimated: $1025.00

Hondata Stage 4b: $1190.00
ECU modify: $50.00
Chip Burner: $240.00
OBD2-1 harness: $240.00
OBD 1 ECU: ~$250.00
================
Estimated: $1970.00

I put the sale of the AVC-R in there, since the Haltech offers boost control, and the Hondata doesn't. The only thing that will be pricey that I didn't factor in is the cost of dyno tuning the Haltech, which will be greater than the Hondata. These were the advertised prices at the time. I actually got the Haltech for $1089.00 and I'm sure the Hondata could be gotten for less, as well.

I ended up buying the E6K and I'm currently half way through installing it. It's just wicked cool sitting tuning your idle on the laptop as the car is running.

I found comparing feature for feature that the E6K had far more tuneability and features available to it. The E6K's only real faults can be the complexity of a generic EMS and that US support really sucks.

I tried investigating the SpeedPro system, but I just couldn't find any detailed specs or feature list.

 

Also, for others the cost of installation and tuning is something to consider.
Haltech doesnt realy come with much of a base map so getting the car started
initially might be hard for some. Just something to consider.

 

I might not have stressed that enough. The Haltech is not a simple plug and play like the Hondata is, though it can be. B20c5 (Mark Bremer) on this list can wire up a harness for you to make the unit essentialy plug and play, and get you maps for starting and running the car. He's very helpful and I'm sure when more people out there go this route base maps will be easier to come by.

 

I am positive that U could have had the hondata for a lot less, Have U spoken to Doug? explaining what u had and wanted??
I am sure u could have gotten the entire system for about 13-1400 bux. This includes everythng for datalogging, burning maps etc.
We have to be very careful, however, some dealers are selling the Hondata well over the MSRP, so that is something U might wanna safeguard against

 

I mentioned both lists were advertised prices. My actual costs for the Haltech were $1089.00, $80 boost control, less $250.00 for the AVC-R. What is that, ~$850.00 compared to the $1400.00 Hondata street price. Also feature for feature I'd rather go for the E6k.

 

The biggest injectors I've worked with so far are 1000cc in a LS/VTEC The engine idled fairly well at 1200 rpm with a reasonable a/f ratio. There is a large variation between different brands and types of injectors as some open and shut significantly faster than others.

Remember that if you get a dealer to tune the Hondata system for you the cost comes down significantly. e.g. $645 for a stage 2 w/ boost, no need to get the $240 programmer, so the cost would be close to $1100 with an OBDI ECU and adapter.

Derek. http://www.hondata.com

 

I think I am going to go Hondata...for real
do i need to upgrade my pump??
what do i need for the fuel systme other than the injectors(440)???
I will be running 9-10 psi tops for now(at least a year)

 

Reading back it sounds like I'm trashing the Hondata, but I'm not. If you don't care to have all the options; datalogger, user programmability, etc... and/or already have an OBD1 car than it's great system for the money. I definitely don't recommend the Haltech to anyone who doesn't want to play with their car themselves and spend time getting the thing tuned and running.

 

Has anyone run a Hondata Stage 4 on a N/A or nitrous vehicle? I ask because I will be running 440 injectors in my H22. Currently I have a 95 B18C computer, that has been reprogrammed by HASport. They said it would be programmed to run a larger injector without problems. I will be using that along with the VAFC for a while, but really like the Hondata system from what I have read about it, and would like to change over. The car will be turboed eventually (should have been done already, but had some unexpected surprises), so I know it will run great with that, but what about before the turbo?

One more question, I notice the stage 4 has launch settings and full throttle shifts. Being my Accord is an auto (yes, it is staying that way) will these cause a problem?

Well, thanks for the help.

 

I noticed that the Haltech has integral VTEC control; is it set up with seperate fuel and ignition maps for high/low cams? Seems like it is a great deal if you can get a decent base program from someone. And if you can hook everything up on your own.