JayDiem_k20_Dc5

so I'm about to begin my b18 build up. I'm looking at what size injectors I should use. I plan on running up to 20 lbs. I'm using stock pistons, moly file racing rings, eagle H beam rods, cometic headgasket and a t3/to4e garett turbo. What size injectors would be good for optimal use? I was thinking along the lines of 500-550cc's. Is that or ? And what about getting a Walbro 255lph fuel pump? They are fairly inexpensive but are they neccessary? Also, I've been reading into Crome for my engine management. What is the major difference between Crome and Neptune. I know that Crome and Uberdata share the same characteristics but Uberdata has some buggs. But what about Neptune. Thanks a lot, and any real helpful links will be . I have been doing a lot of searching but I'm still unsure on what size injectors will be good enough

nfn15037

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JayDiemB18bCivic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'm using stock pistons</TD></TR></TABLE>

Why?

State a horsepower goal then figure out what size injector you need from that.

JayDiem_k20_Dc5

becuase the compression ratio in the b18b is already low enough. My goal is 300whp

turboeg77

550's are too small for 20psi go 750's or higher. you will need to use walbro for anything bigger than 450's

JayDiem_k20_Dc5

when I get a boost controller, will I be able to tune my ecu for 3 stages of boost and change how much fuel I use. lets say I do it like this


low boost-5lbs
mid boost-12lbs
high boost-20lbs

will I be able to change how much fuel I go through. I mean todays gas prices in all, I just don't wanna be going through fuel like crazy.


and you're saying 750's would be alright for this setup.

Will Crome be the right setup.

Funds for this setup are about and around $2500, so I'm tryin to price it all around that. Give or take a $100 or so. One thing for sure is I do want to upgrade my clutch if I go boost.

chrisgottigsr

Walbro 255lph fuel pump expensive? what!! they are like 90 bucks man. get one. your gonna need it

JayDiem_k20_Dc5

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by chrisgottigsr &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Walbro 255lph fuel pump expensive? what!! they are like 90 bucks man. get one. your gonna need it</TD></TR></TABLE>

dude when did I ever say they were expensive? Read before hand


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JayDiemB18bCivic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> And what about getting a Walbro 255lph fuel pump? They are fairly inexpensive but are they neccessary? </TD></TR></TABLE>

Marlon88

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JayDiemB18bCivic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> And what about getting a Walbro 255lph fuel pump? They are fairly inexpensive but are they neccessary? </TD></TR></TABLE>

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by chrisgottigsr &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Walbro 255lph fuel pump expensive? what!! they are like 90 bucks man. get one. your gonna need it</TD></TR></TABLE>

Reading OWNS you

You should look into some forged pistons and some bigger injectors .

JayDiem_k20_Dc5

thanks man.

so you don't think that my stock b18b pistons can handle that or what? I've heard some people boosting up to 20lbs on stock internals on the b18b with no problems at all. Of course with good tunning! I mean will it be neccessary for forged pistons. I'm doing a blockguard. Poor mans aftermarket sleeves. I've read about blockguards and I'd rather have one then not have one. They do help with flexing and I haven't heard anything about overheating or hot spots at all. I mean its better to be safe then sorry right? I just wanna do a low budget setup that is both reliable and powerful at the same time. my plan is to use this until I move in August out to Vegas then buy an Ap1 . Getting a lil old for civics and well I need a nice sports car specially out there! So what is everyones recommendations? Any help is good help

turbotegy

20lbs for 300? too much man.. u dont need that much boost for 300.. why stock pistons? your already down there.. u may as well fork over the extra cash and do it right the first time for more power and the peace of mind.. and a 255lph intank is definately worth your ninety bucks.. and dont waste your time with a block guard

JayDiem_k20_Dc5

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by turbotegy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">20lbs for 300? too much man.. u dont need that much boost for 300.. why stock pistons? your already down there.. u may as well fork over the extra cash and do it right the first time for more power and the peace of mind.. and a 255lph intank is definately worth your ninety bucks.. and dont waste your time with a block guard</TD></TR></TABLE>

well I mean ****, a blockguard is only 50 bucks, just another thing to just make me feel a little safer boosting then having nothing at all. I plan on honing it so I'll just bring it there. here are my ball park figures

$ 900- Turbo kit
$ 300- Clutch kit w/ 8lb flywheel
$ 300- 700+cc Injectors
$ 250- Crome Tunning out in Buffalo, NY
$ 300- Eagle H Beam Rods w/ ARP 2000 rod bolts
$ 400- Forged Pistons if I even need them- 8.5:1 comp ratio
$ 100- Cometic Headgasket
$ 70- ARP Head Bolts
$ 50- Blockguard
$ 100- Walbro Fuel Pump

That's $2770


then I need the plumbing for the turbo and tires for my wheels

thats prolly another 300 or so.

Almost to 3 grand.

Plus I would have to bring my block to a machine shop to hot tank, hone and install the whole bottom end so it can make a good seal and its put in correctly.

so I'm lookin at $3,200

I really wanna install it myself, but I'm not that confident with electrical work. I've done all the work on my car so far, removed the motor, but I don't really think I can figure out the electrical. As far as mounting it up and all I'm set. So who knows how much to finish electrical. Maybe I'll just wing it.

this ****** blows, lol

JayDiem_k20_Dc5

How much power do you think I can put on my stock motor and how much could I boost safely with a good tune?


or what about using stock rods and doing forged pistons with arp 2000 rod bolts and upgraded rod bearings? I heard the b series rods are pretty heavy duty!


Modified by JayDiemB18bCivic at 12:39 AM 1/18/2006

sCeRaXn

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JayDiemB18bCivic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">How much power do you think I can put on my stock motor and how much could I boost safely with a good tune?


or what about using stock rods and doing forged pistons with arp 2000 rod bolts and upgraded rod bearings? I heard the b series rods are pretty heavy duty!


Modified by JayDiemB18bCivic at 12:39 AM 1/18/2006</TD></TR></TABLE>

Stock rods with ARP's and forged pistons will be plenty for 300hp...as will the stock sleeves. Id ditch the blockguard. I mean people make 300hp all day long on stock sleeves. If you only plan on that much power id keep the compression stock or up it a tiny bit. Lowering it will only make you have to run more boost to reach your goal. If youve got a good tune then stock(or slightly raised) compression would be fine and actually add more power if it were raised.

As far as bearings go...i always use stock. Same with gaskets and timing belts. I have used the ACLs though and i didnt see anything wrong with them.

Good luck with your build

Kelly.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by turboeg77 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">550's are too small for 20psi go 750's or higher. you will need to use walbro for anything bigger than 450's</TD></TR></TABLE>

im running 25 psi on t3t4e 57 trim with 550's

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JayDiemB18bCivic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">becuase the compression ratio in the b18b is already low enough. My goal is 300whp</TD></TR></TABLE>

550s will be good for 300whp, but i would get as big as you can afford that way you wont have to upgrade later.

i would also get pistons,
your gonna have the block apart anyway.

nasteboyii

I think u have alot of questions, and some things dont sound right
basically, its costs to own a turbo car, better parts usually mean better reliability
and tuning is very very important
and just becuase someone puts a turbo on stock car and makes power, how long will it last, its not the upfront issue its the long term u have to worry about

if you want to make 300 hp, 550s should be good, i would suggest upgrading to fuel pump, a used pump is a failure waiting to happen, if it runs lean due to pump, u will have more problems that wasnt worth the 90 you would save to not get a pump

If you are concerned with gas mileage at X amount of boost, bottom line is more poewr u make more fuel you will consume. so if you want gas mileage you gotta stay outta boost, staying in boost makes more power, which consumes more fuel.

if you are running 20 psi on the street, u are going to consume alot of fuel, and fuel/timing maps will come with the tune, to were each level of boost can be compensated as needed by a good tuner, so it wont matter what boost you run, it will be properly using fuel/timing as needed.

i ramble alot, but i hope i hit on all the subjects.
Final mental note as everyone says, pick 2 outta 3 Fast, Reliable, Cheap
you dont get all three

good luck, but from my expensive DO IT RIGHT THE FIRST TIME&lt; it saves time, money, headaches and heartaches

dan

HiProfile

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nasteboyii &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">DO IT RIGHT THE FIRST TIME&lt; it saves time, money, headaches and heartaches</TD></TR></TABLE>

^^ I'm with him on this one!


$400 is what you're asking for the JayDeeM B18b in your sig. If the pistons go, it will be at least that much to fix the mess, not including wasted time, a tow, etc. Just get a job moving concrete block at some construction site for a week or two during your 'off' time. Eat romin noodles for a month. Don't drink/smoke for a few weeks. No hookers till summer! Whatever it takes to make the $400, you WILL NOT REGRET IT. One thing I'd suggest is to not get a cometic (a few respected builders/racers say they are ~equal), save $60 by going with OEM, and not dicking with a block guard (proven to work AND not work, results aren't conclusive).

Back OT, 300whp is about all you'll get with a b18b, dsm 450's and a 255HP pump. You'll want at LEAST 550's, 600+ if they are peak and hold. Neptune is easier to get a better tune, and above all has much more options. Soon it will be native real-time programing too.

My last bit of advice - NEVER devote to a setup unless you can purchase double of everything. I'd rather have a slightly less powerful setup and be able to fix it, then to blast away to redline for just a few pulls, then have it sit for a year.

nasteboyii

""My last bit of advice - NEVER devote to a setup unless you can purchase double of everything. I'd rather have a slightly less powerful setup and be able to fix it, then to blast away to redline for just a few pulls, then have it sit for a year""

and i agree with this quote
It ALWAYS end s up costing more then planned

dan

JayDiem_k20_Dc5

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by HiProfile &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

^^ I'm with him on this one!


$400 is what you're asking for the JayDeeM B18b in your sig. If the pistons go, it will be at least that much to fix the mess, not including wasted time, a tow, etc. Just get a job moving concrete block at some construction site for a week or two during your 'off' time. Eat romin noodles for a month. Don't drink/smoke for a few weeks. No hookers till summer! Whatever it takes to make the $400, you WILL NOT REGRET IT. One thing I'd suggest is to not get a cometic (a few respected builders/racers say they are ~equal), save $60 by going with OEM, and not dicking with a block guard (proven to work AND not work, results aren't conclusive).

Back OT, 300whp is about all you'll get with a b18b, dsm 450's and a 255HP pump. You'll want at LEAST 550's, 600+ if they are peak and hold. Neptune is easier to get a better tune, and above all has much more options. Soon it will be native real-time programing too.

My last bit of advice - NEVER devote to a setup unless you can purchase double of everything. I'd rather have a slightly less powerful setup and be able to fix it, then to blast away to redline for just a few pulls, then have it sit for a year.</TD></TR></TABLE>

yea I guess so. I work at applebees as a cook makin 10.50 an hour. Wish it was more but I guess it's way better then minimum wage right? So I can get forged pistons( 9.5:1 comp ratio?), use my stock rods with ARP's, 550cc injectors, expletive the blockguard, but what about the headgasket. I have heard way too many stories of headgaskets being blown under boost becuase OEM is too thin and can't handle too much boost. I'm def going to get the ARP head bolts. And def the Walbro 255lph fuel pump. While doing the fuel is it crucial to get an upgraded Fuel Rail?

I've heard a lot of good things about Neptune and my friend is thinking about using it with his fully built and boosted b16a3. He's looking to get 450+whp out if his setup. SO From what Nasteboyii has told me, go with neptune; for it has more options and will be better in the long run.

Point is, I want to boost safely, be reliable and make 300whp. 300whp is going to be more than enough to have fun in, beat a few cars( stang, camaros, maybe an evo?!?!?) and not have to worry about blowing **** up. I don't plan on exceeding the 7500 rpm mark on this b18b. I mean after using arp rod bolts and rod bearings on the stock rods, I've heard many people going up into the 8's with thier b18bs, and considering the rod stroke, it's quite impressive I think!


Later down the road I plan to do some head work. Now when I'm looking for camshafts I need to look for something with a higher lift and shorter duration correct? What company would you guys recommend for cams? I've heard great things about skunk2 and crower. Thanks for all ur help guys, I'm getting a better sense on what type of setup I should really use.

kabaroo

remember a block guard cost more than $50 with all the machine work to get in done right. Im glad you expletive it!

I dont understand why you want to use stock rods... Whats $300 while your in there? It will cost a bunch to pull it out and put Eagles in when you want more, you stated head work down the road.

If money is really a concern how about boosting the stock b18b? I make similiar $$ as you and i tried to build a SOHC w/ a nice turbo setup last year. All was well, but cash ran low and i had to cheap out in some areas and guess what? My motor lasted about 1000 miles mostly break in miles. So i got to sit the whole summer and tell people i potentially had a 12 sec. car instead of driving a 13 sec. car.

JayDiem_k20_Dc5

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by kabaroo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">remember a block guard cost more than $50 with all the machine work to get in done right. Im glad you expletive it!

I dont understand why you want to use stock rods... Whats $300 while your in there? It will cost a bunch to pull it out and put Eagles in when you want more, you stated head work down the road.

If money is really a concern how about boosting the stock b18b? I make similiar $$ as you and i tried to build a SOHC w/ a nice turbo setup last year. All was well, but cash ran low and i had to cheap out in some areas and guess what? My motor lasted about 1000 miles mostly break in miles. So i got to sit the whole summer and tell people i potentially had a 12 sec. car instead of driving a 13 sec. car.</TD></TR></TABLE>


that blows man, I feel ur pain, I threw a rod bearing on my d16 in august so I've been without my civic for 5, almost 6 months now! And when you have a loan on it, still with $6,000 left to pay, it kind of kicks you in the nuts!

Well the main reason for stock rods are becuase they can handle a good amount of stress. The b series rods are pretty durable and the only reason why people have problems with stock rods is that they don't upgrade the weak stock bolts on the rods and that's why they end up throwing a bearing.

So why spend money that really isn't needed. Bigger rods would be nice to have, but I'm tryin to do my best on a low budget set-up. And if my only plan is to get 300whp then I'll be more than happy. I just want to have fun in this car before I move on to an s2000. And that car will be more of a build. Using all forged materials with Titanium rods! That's a car that I want all the power I can get outta it while keeping a near stock look. 18 in black with a silver lip, dropped and an OEM lip kit.

kabaroo

^^ dont forget the hardtop!


But just think of the fun a $300 set of rods would make! Also i would feel more comfortable on high boost pulls. Plus you can subtract the cost of upgraded rod bolt from the Eagle so they are a little cheaper.... maybe.

HiProfile

Well theres a few issues with a normal b18b. (BTW, I do lots of research, my hp #'s are what I cosider the average) Tiny rods usually safe 250whp & 8k, bandaid is shotpeening. 'Bad' rod/stroke angle, bandaid by ignoring it. Weak cam, fix with a crower 404 cam (not the 402t, oddly enough). Weak valvetrain, fix with springs/etc and a prayer (nuts loosen, lifters aren't rpm-friendly). Tranny has less than optimal gearing. No crank girdle, fix with a girdle & align hone - or lower redline. Thats the biggest ones I can think of.

The only real pluses (over a gsr) are the extra displacement and the price.


Like I said, you would only have HG issues with overheating, warped surfaces, and not using copper spray and headstuds. With a cheap motor, few people want to go above and beyond, hence everyone having issues with OEM.

JayDiem_k20_Dc5

hmmmmm.......... as many thoughts cross my mind

JayDiem_k20_Dc5

lets see and hear of some of your set-ups. Pics of the build up are best and the overall finished product with some HP and 1/4 times so I can get a ballpark on what I might be lookin at. Anything over 300whp will prolly make me **** my pants. I thought a ******* srt-4 was fast as expletive so I can only imagine


so lets see and hear guys

oh and one more dumb question. When I look for my injectors what is the difference between peak and hold and saturated? What one is better and why? Thanks again. Theres so much out there to learn and this is why I'm a H-T member

nasteboyii

peak/hold on a honda needs a resistor box

at least 92 and up cars are saturated, older cars have peak/holds w/resistor box

saturated come with hondas, which mean there plug and plays,

this is the basics,
peak/holds come support much more CC i think they go upwards 1600 and more, saturateds ive only see go up to 750cc or so

this give ya a starting point
dan