SnOOpY-NO

The case is like this...

Sleeved B16A2 CP 9:1, Neukin Equal Manifold, Precision SC34, TiAL 44mm Wastegate, 3" downpipe... AEM EMS etc..

Because of law regulations in hp I want a high/low boost option in my car...
Planning to get the lowest spring possible for the 44mm, which is 0.2bar/2.9psi and run a boostcontroller to run lowest possible on street and run higher like 15psi on track etc..

Will the 44mm TiAL be able to dump enough to keep the boost that low with my setup?

Kwuaymaikrup

You won't have a problem. My 44 has no trouble keeping boost rock steady at 10psi. I am also running a considerabley larger turbo than you. As far as you running 2.9psi....yeah right. You will feel boost for the first time and drive around everyday @ 15psi. Who do you think you are kidding?

SnOOpY-NO

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Kwuaymaikrup &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You will feel boost for the first time and drive around everyday @ 15psi. Who do you think you are kidding? </TD></TR></TABLE>
Its obvious that i will run around with 15psi, but a need to have a button to push, and woosh i have only 3 psi and maybe reline on 7000rpm, in case i meet a technical road patrol who wants to check if my car is legal or not... This is how it works in Norway.... Pretty dull !!

SnOOpY-NO

Are the 38mm able to dump so much to ???

SnOOpY-NO

I need to get my car under 184whp to get it road legal, but i want to have the possibility of 400whp withing a button push.....
Running AEM EMS...


Any suggestions ?

Kwuaymaikrup

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SnOOpY-NO &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I need to get my car under 184whp to get it road legal, but i want to have the possibility of 400whp withing a button push.....
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How are they supposed to know how much power you are making? Do the cops roll around with a portable dyno, pull you over and strap you on?

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

Stick w/ a low rate spring for the patrols and either use the EMS or an EBC to keep it at the 400whp high setting you want. When a patrol comes over, flick the switch of say a remote button. (or switch if you use a manual controller,) to go back to the base small spring setting, and Voila..

PM-Performance

there are law requirements on HP ? time to move

Also getting a 2.9psi spring i dont think even with a boost controller will let you get to 15psi.

Oh just have a switch that drops a cylinder or two when you get pullled over, that should get you back down in power

SnOOpY-NO

How about a 0.5 bar spring, AEM EMS with GM boost solenoid and rpm limiter on 5k or 6k...??

Is it possible for the AEM EMS to have 2 maps/setting avaliable and just switching between them with the push of a button ?

Cyphear

This is an interesting problem. how do they measure HP? maybe you could rig up some kind of restictor or something controlled by a switch. i can't think of an easy way to make the EMS loose power, unless it supports a "table switch" like u suggested. you could cut spark to two of your cylinders, that'd be a descent solution that i could see happening. just wire up some sort of switch somewhere, but still that wouldn't be very simple.


i guess you could see how high you could get a small spring to go with a boost controller for starters. maybe use a 5 - 7psi spring (.4 - .5 bar) and then cut spark to one of the cylinders to further drop HP.

z6

just make a flip switch 3k rev limiter

blundar

You people are all retarded if you think you can't run 2bar on a 0.25bar spring.

If you have a proper boost controller, you could have a 0.25 bar spring and run 100psi. It doesn't ******* matter - even a basic PID design will be able to handle it assuming you have a solenoid that can be driven with a sufficiently high frequency PWM signal. Finding the appropriate solenoid is another thing...

Read up on PID (Proportional Integral Differential) control of PWM (Pulse Width Modulated) signals if you want background.

turboEGhatch

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SnOOpY-NO &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Its obvious that i will run around with 15psi, but a need to have a button to push, and woosh i have only 3 psi and maybe reline on 7000rpm, in case i meet a technical road patrol who wants to check if my car is legal or not... This is how it works in Norway.... Pretty dull !! </TD></TR></TABLE>

What are they going to do? Use their magical butt dyno and tell you that your car is making too much horsepower? They can't do that. They can't just get into your car and say "Blah blah blah, this makes too much horsepower" because then you say PROVE IT, and they say "We can't!" and then if they somehow make you go to a dyno, you turn the boost down. Those laws sound silly and un-enforceable, I wouldn't worry too much about trying to run 3 pounds of boost on the street.

Blundar: I don't know where you've been living, but unless you use CO2 to control boost, trying to hold 20 psi on a 3 psi spring is next to impossible. You start to get so much backpressure in the exhaust because you're making more horsepower that it forces the wastegate with the much weaker 3 psi spring. Ever go to a clash of the titans race or any other outlaw 10.5 race, and see all the guys running CO2 boost controllers? If you could hold high boost on a small spring perfectly fine with a regular electronic boost controller, everyone would be running a regular boost controller. Problem with the 10.5 cars is they can't take a TON of power off launch, so you have to take the boost down dramatically, and a regular EBC just can't regulate boost good enough.

spectacle

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by blundar &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You people are all retarded if you think you can't run 2bar on a 0.25bar spring.

If you have a proper boost controller, you could have a 0.25 bar spring and run 100psi. It doesn't ******* matter - even a basic PID design will be able to handle it assuming you have a solenoid that can be driven with a sufficiently high frequency PWM signal. Finding the appropriate solenoid is another thing...

Read up on PID (Proportional Integral Differential) control of PWM (Pulse Width Modulated) signals if you want background.</TD></TR></TABLE>

you should make a thread. I'm very interested in this

philipwight

Get a low psi spring and with the majic of a flip switch make to where your car runs very little timing and lose the hp that way.

blundar

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by turboEGsedan &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Blundar: I don't know where you've been living, but unless you use CO2 to control boost, trying to hold 20 psi on a 3 psi spring is next to impossible. You start to get so much backpressure in the exhaust because you're making more horsepower that it forces the wastegate with the much weaker 3 psi spring. Ever go to a clash of the titans race or any other outlaw 10.5 race, and see all the guys running CO2 boost controllers? If you could hold high boost on a small spring perfectly fine with a regular electronic boost controller, everyone would be running a regular boost controller. Problem with the 10.5 cars is they can't take a TON of power off launch, so you have to take the boost down dramatically, and a regular EBC just can't regulate boost good enough.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I hear what you are saying re: backpressure. Too much of it will be just like boost applied to the pressure side of the wastegate, and will cause things to open. I would have expected that the corresponding increase in IM pressure as a result of boost building could be used to balance pressure on the diaphram, particularly if a bleed solenoid was simultaneously used on the pressure side. Presumably, this is not the case and I stand corrected. I guess I'll have to try it next turbo build and let you know eh?

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by spectacle &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">you should make a thread. I'm very interested in this </TD></TR></TABLE>
I don't want to exceed the technical quotient of h-t. Seriously, PID control isn't anything new - it's standard industrial process control technique. A simple googling will turn up more than you ever needed to know. PWM likewise... Standard way of generating analog signals from digital outputs = high speed PWM. What's left is implementation in a reasonably fast microcontroller with appropriately chosen solenoids. This task will be left to the reader.

Pondus

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by turboEGsedan &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

What are they going to do? Use their magical butt dyno and tell you that your car is making too much horsepower? They can't do that. They can't just get into your car and say "Blah blah blah, this makes too much horsepower" because then you say PROVE IT, and they say "We can't!" and then if they somehow make you go to a dyno, you turn the boost down. Those laws sound silly and un-enforceable, I wouldn't worry too much about trying to run 3 pounds of boost on the street.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

What they can and will do is have him do a tech inspection at the DMV and put the car on a dyno if they suspect there's something not right. Deal is that we are only allowed to increase Hp 15% over stock, so for a Civic with VTi suspension and brakes that means 160 + 15%. This is the limit on the Euro sertification, to go beyond this you will have to get your car resertified by a proving institute like TUV in Germany, but it's $$$$$$$$$$, or do as many does drive illegaly and hope to avoid the pigs

But they are still dumb enough to not realize that the dyno measures whp and that the stock VTi has 160 on the crank and not on the wheels Also if the car is newer than 96, you will have to pay extra taxes on the Hp and volume increase of the engine In short, living in Norway and beeing into performance cars suck.

Cyphear

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Pondus &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

What they can and will do is have him do a tech inspection at the DMV and put the car on a dyno if they suspect there's something not right. Deal is that we are only allowed to increase Hp 15% over stock, so for a Civic with VTi suspension and brakes that means 160 + 15%. This is the limit on the Euro sertification, to go beyond this you will have to get your car resertified by a proving institute like TUV in Germany, but it's $$$$$$$$$$, or do as many does drive illegaly and hope to avoid the pigs

But they are still dumb enough to not realize that the dyno measures whp and that the stock VTi has 160 on the crank and not on the wheels Also if the car is newer than 96, you will have to pay extra taxes on the Hp and volume increase of the engine In short, living in Norway and beeing into performance cars suck.</TD></TR></TABLE>

that sucks. can't you just change your tune between getting pulled over and going to the DMV?

turboEGhatch

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Pondus &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

What they can and will do is have him do a tech inspection at the DMV and put the car on a dyno if they suspect there's something not right. Deal is that we are only allowed to increase Hp 15% over stock, so for a Civic with VTi suspension and brakes that means 160 + 15%. This is the limit on the Euro sertification, to go beyond this you will have to get your car resertified by a proving institute like TUV in Germany, but it's $$$$$$$$$$, or do as many does drive illegaly and hope to avoid the pigs

But they are still dumb enough to not realize that the dyno measures whp and that the stock VTi has 160 on the crank and not on the wheels Also if the car is newer than 96, you will have to pay extra taxes on the Hp and volume increase of the engine In short, living in Norway and beeing into performance cars suck.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Ok, here's what you do. Drive the car around at 14, 15, 16, whatever PSI you like. If you get stopped by a cop and need to get your car inspected go put your low pressure spring in the wastegate, switch to your different tune that takes all the timing out of the car and sets a lower rev limit, like 6000 RPM's or something. They can't MAKE you take your car right as it's driven on the street to a dyno to see if it's making more power than it's supposed to.

Pondus

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Cyphear &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

that sucks. can't you just change your tune between getting pulled over and going to the DMV?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Bingo! Hence why Snoopy want's to know if he will be able to make a tune that will satisfy the DMV on the setup he's planning to run

One map to please the government, and one to please himself

Cyphear

so just mark your distributor, retard that about 8 degrees, maybe more, there goes 100whp, then turn your boost controller all the way down and u should be good. figure out the max you will be boosting and then buy the smallest spring you can. So if you are maxing out at like 11lbs, then buy a .3 bar spring or somethin.

bomber

Yea all in all this doesn't sound too bad. Just roll around with a small yellow and big yellow spring (.2+.6=.8bar total) in the wastegate and on high boost (wired with a simple 2 way toggle switch via the EMS).

When you need to drop the power, just pop the big yellow spring out and hit the toggle switch to go back to low boost.

How much does this kind of inspection cost if you do get "picked"?

SnOOpY-NO

The technicans co-op with the cops... And if the technicans find anything suspicious the cops will escort me to the testing facility, and on the way i am not allowed to do any adjustments.... But if i have a switch under the streering wheel or something i can just flip it when i see them and everything is ok before i stop...

This is how it MUST be....
Turning distributor etc cant be done....

So in short, I need a map to please me and a map to please the government as Pondus said.... A mean the AEM EMS can do this, can someone confirm that ?
The EMS can also controll boost right ? with GM boost solenoid?
And if its possible to have two maps avaliable then one can retard timing, lower boost and set low rev limit... I think that will do the ****....

Give me some good sugestions and comments please...
184 -&gt; 400 -&gt; 184 -&gt; 400 with just a flip inside car, thats my goal...

SSVTi

Please dont forget about the emisions (CO, NOx, ect.). They'll take a look at that when they find out your upgraded engine is only putting out 160+15%!

turboEGhatch

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SnOOpY-NO &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Give me some good sugestions and comments please...
184 -&gt; 400 -&gt; 184 -&gt; 400 with just a flip inside car, thats my goal...</TD></TR></TABLE>

You will not be able to do this straight up with a conventional wastegate spring, sorry. The best idea I have is you could run a CO2 boost controller in conjunction with your AEM's boost control. The CO2 boost controller doesn't rely on boot pressure at all to tell the wastegate when to open, so you could use the CO2 to force the wastegate completely open, and you wouldn't make any or very much boost because the gate bypasses it all. Combine that with a switch that changes from your "real" AEM map to the emissions AEM map that takes out a bunch of timing and fuel, and that could work. Actually, instead of spending like 800 dollars on a CO2 boost controller, all you'd need is a nitrous solenoid, the CO2 tank, some lines, and a switch to activate it. I'm guessing you'd tee off the wastegate, and put one way check valves on both the CO2 and the actually boost vacuum lines, so that CO2 doesn't get into the air lines, and air doesn't get into the CO2 lines. This is the best solution I can think of, but it really could work IMHO.