Cyber ITR

im just getting paranoid cuz some ppl told me, built engines are probably only last for like 50k mile

just wanna know if its worth it spending $$$ building up my car

deviant1

I wanna know too

shermanyang

iTrader: (1)

really depends no how you drive. my motor has been in business for about 15k miles now...and still running strong. i beat on it everyday though so i expect new rings maybe by next summer or so. maybe even going 83mm...we'll see.

leadfoot78

It will never last as long as a stock Honda motor, 50k in my book is actually very good. Reason why they won't last as long is the power that people push through them, no one builds an engine(assuming forged rods, pistons and all the goods) just to make the 180hp that the engine made stock. No matter how well built the engine is the power that it will make will decide how long it will last, it's all about stress on the motor, thats why alot of people blow up while doing fifth gear pulls. And if you are freaking out cuz your built motor won't last more than 50k than you should probably sell it and buy a stock d series.

Muckman

iTrader: (2)

why would it be any different? Most of the components are higher quality. The only debilitating factor would be driving style or the mechanical stress of a bazillion hp.

Seraph0

If you use quality components and everything is assembled within acceptable tolerance levels there is nothing that says the motor shouldn't last nearly as long as a factory built motor. Provided you also operate the motor within acceptable boundaries (good tune: A/R ratios, timing, etc).

Think factory turbo motors... they last a long time becuz they have all that was mentioned above.

archmage

I figure that if you go turbo, you should also: Resleeve, bullet-proof bottom end, valvetrain upgrade, and worry about fuel, tuning, and whatever else...

If that is done (include stuff I left out) - I don't see why it wouldn't last 100k+ miles...

don't drive like a maniac... don't do 8k RPM launches on the street...or anywhere...if you are making serious power, and you use it irresponsibly, it's possible that something will fail. You could break a gear, clutch wear...blow a hole through the damned block... eheh

I think that if you're scared of premature failure, you'll take the precautions to ensure that your investment will last. You may enjoy your power, but you may not abuse it.

Cyber ITR

well i have resleeved my block with Darton , JE , Eagle rods , ACL bearings
on the head supertech springs and retainers

and fuel delivery should be sweet and will be tuned for safety not power

well hopefully my built engine will last for a very very very long time !

mdpalmer

Well spoken!!

Boostage

How long it last depends on how hard your drive. however lets look into what "it" is... a stock motor with near 200k miles on it wont be as peppey as when it was new. over the years, piston rings get worn down and you lose compression. so u make less power.

Rods and pistons dont usually get worn down. so basically with a built motor. you may have to tear teh motor down, and put in new rings and bearings. and you have a brand new motor again you can reuse your forged rods and pistons forever. just gotta replace the rings and bearings when they get worn down too much. so yes the $$ is justifed.

the most money it will cost u is in the begining. but everytime you tear teh motor down you are replacing just bearings and rings. so its much cheaper then.

Lsos

Stock honda parts are designed with durability in mind. A lot of times aftermarket parts, while being stronger, aren't as durable. Strength and durability aren't the same thing. This imo is why a built motor won't last as long.

-Trinitron-

There are way too many variables to consider. This is kind of like asking how long will a house last. Well if it's in FL on the coast it may not last a year. If it's in BFE nowhere, it may last 100 yrs. It is all about what the motor is exposed to. If you build it and make 200 hp. It will last a while. If you make 500 hp it may only last a minute.

Cyber ITR

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by -TRINiTRON- &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> If you make 500 hp it may only last a minute.</TD></TR></TABLE>

oh **** .........

91civicDXdude

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MarkC &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If you use quality components and everything is assembled within acceptable tolerance levels there is nothing that says the motor shouldn't last nearly as long as a factory built motor. Provided you also operate the motor within acceptable boundaries (good tune: A/R ratios, timing, etc).

Think factory turbo motors... they last a long time becuz they have all that was mentioned above.</TD></TR></TABLE>

factory turbo motors also have a margin of safety where they make a lot less power than possible so they *will* last

danl

Their are two things that cause 99% of the failures in engines. Mechanical wear on the bearings and piston/sleeve fitmet. The other is detonation. Running lean is an issue under load, but it inevitably leads to detonation allmost immediatley. It can be argued that the improper burn of detonation causes the heat which ruins a motor. Case in point civic VX's run very lean at part throttle (low load) for emissions reasons but don't burn pistons. The trick is they don't have an improper burn per say......anyways......

With regullary maintenence and good engineering mechanical wear only becomes an issue above 200K miles with modern oils. Good care extends this to 300+ thousand miles.

Detonation and preignition are what poses the biggest problem for high power motors. I think factory boosted cars are a testiment to this fact. They have a lot of engineering dedicated to preventing and controlling detonation. Nissan sr20det, mitsubishi 4g63, turbo dodges, turbo volvos, turbo saabs, etc... all live long usefull lives when operating within their design limits. Most of the turbocharged models also produce 200+ hp and do so for decades and hundreds of thousands of miles (as long as the owner doesen't do trully bizzare stunts).

vtec.dc2

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Day Walker &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">im just getting paranoid cuz some ppl told me, built engines are probably only last for like 50k mile

just wanna know if its worth it spending $$$ building up my car

</TD></TR></TABLE>

its not worth it if you don't have money to throw away.. cause thats all it is, not waiste cause you get something out of it, but you don't get anything in return like investment.

i'd apply the following formula:

HP LEVEL (or amount of wear) / AMOUNT OF FUCKUPS (part failures/driver errors) = engine life

you can't stop seals from wearing down.. seals need periodical replacement.. so if you sleeves are good for hp you are making, you'd still need to replace pistons rings at some point, valve seals. you cna't expect same stress level from 250whp vs 350whp

POWERINTEGRA

Also why do you think most of engine builders don't give you a warranty ever wonder?
Is because they know the motor will BE ABUSE and all the parts are made for performance/ and in a set of mind to make money and have you come back for more! which mean if you want to keep the motor running strong most likely you will keep replacing parts and coming back to the performance shop any shop.
2-Stock motor are built in a last long time set of mind with minimum maintenance, meaning just regular oil change and tune ups here and there.
The parts made for a stock car are not made to be abuse and to be good for warranties therefore they worry about smog issues and durability(Still some stock parts are the best you can use for race cars not all of them tho).
3-When you have a properly built motor it will last a lot of longer than a improper built motor meaning with poor tuning or knowledge about building race motor ,all motor, turbo set ups etc.
4- If you are too worry about spending money I recommend stay stock will save you money. If you wanna spend some cash to built a car get ready once you start in won't stop built motors require more attention, time, and care. You don't have to spend thousands each time but yes you will buy things here and there and will always want to go faster and faster. But everytime you seat in that driver front seat! step on the gas and hear that pizzzzz from the blow off it pays off and there is no price for the adrenaline, joy and the feeling when you kick a porche's *** and v8s that is suppose to be faster than your car nothing pays for that!
If I'm wrong correct me anybody and want to add something!

dornon13

most likely i think that built engines wont last as long for two reasons...

1) Most people that are going to build a motor arent going to drive it like a granny they will drive it pretty hard at least some of the time.

2) performance parts arent built to get maximum engine life they are built to maximize power thus pushing the motor more and more towards its limits.

with that said i wouldnt say any built motor wont last as long as any factory motor..its about how you drive it mainly and things just happen sometimes....some hondas last 300k miles before giving...but not all docause **** happens..

POWERINTEGRA

dornon13 u are right kind of what I wanted to say but in different words

dornon13

lol i just kinda skimmed once i got toqards the bottom of the page lol..its getting kinda late

Boltz

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by danl &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Their are two things that cause 99% of the failures in engines. Mechanical wear on the bearings and piston/sleeve fitmet. The other is detonation. Running lean is an issue under load, but it inevitably leads to detonation allmost immediatley. It can be argued that the improper burn of detonation causes the heat which ruins a motor. Case in point civic VX's run very lean at part throttle (low load) for emissions reasons but don't burn pistons. The trick is they don't have an improper burn per say . </TD></TR></TABLE>

improper burn of detonation? I didn't know you could properly detonate

Running lean = more heat = possible hotspots/pre-ignition

My understanding of detonation/pre-ignition is that the heat in the cyl could be too high, or could have lets say certain hotspots on the piston (lets say from a lean condition). These hot spots could pre-ignite the fuel mixture and when the flame front from around the piston meets the flame front from the top of the cyl (when the spark plug fires) enormous amounts of stress go to the bearings and entire motor...

The reason people will tune F/I motors to 12:1 and na motors up to 13.5:1 is because the extra fuel (running rich/not fully burning the fuel mixture) helps cool the motor. Protecting the motor has a lot to do with thermal managment.... like how topfuel cars run mad rich for cooling, not saying those last for long though .

Its not just the civic vx that burns lean as hell at low load, you can tune a car to do that under a certain load point because there is only a little bit of fuel in air in the cyl, and since its such a small amount of the mixture the heat from running lean doesnt really matter since your cooling system is setup to also work under high stress loads (high rpms, and boost) And on turbocharged cars, running lean is better at the low load sites because the heat from running lean helps spool the turbo faster.... (heat=energy)


Modified by Boltz at 11:38 PM 8/17/2004

Killer_B

i built my motor. i'm not an Expert builder. its been over a year. this motor should have blown after i broke it in becuz i used to race it at 15lbs, untuned (V-AFC,FMU, DSM 450 set up). anyhow, i tuned the motor 4months after it was built.

i beat on this motor! yup, i admit it. its my daily driver and i keep it at about 330hp for daily driving...and i use every HP . i can't help it.

anyhow, i recently drove from Ny to Fl. now i drive 70mile round trip to work every day, 7days a week. THANK GOD, i haven't had any problems yet.

actually, this past sunday i changed the water pump becuz it was leaking. i'll be changing the oil pump with-in the next month. i changed the timing belt before i left Ny.

maybe i'm lucky, maybe it was built properly. who knows?



btw, i've made 430+ hp at full boost. i made more but i won't disclose the exact amount.


Modified by Killer_B at 12:37 AM 8/18/2004

Drew Peacock

How does the high silicone rate (I think it is silicone) in forged pistons effect wear and tear I know they run a lot louder when cold.. The expansion over time may cause deteriation of the rings??

leadfoot78

Over time it wars the piston skirt and the cylinder walls because of the piston to wall clerance. The piston and cylinder becomes sligtly oval shaped because of the side loads that the compression stroke creates.