philo

I am one of the few folks to have both systems so I am speaking from first hand experience. This is my opinion based on my personal preference.

If you are running a rarely race daily driver I would personally recommend the Hondata system. I have only had the AEM about a month but so far I have had a much better user experience with my Hondata.

This is largely because I am not a professional tuner and many of the AEM’s features are way beyond me. The Hondata gives you exactly what you need to make a modified car run like factory.

The AEM has a gamut of features that are not needed for day to day use. This makes routine settings very difficult. I hate to say it, but it even took JC from AEM hours to get my cars idling, and even now it won’t idle with the A/C on. I did appreciate his efforts though as his time was limited.

The AEM has every feature you could ever want but the learning curve is definitely inhibitive. The Hondata on the other hand is very easy to use, even despite the fiddly programming. When I first put my 440’s in I had the car running within 5mins with the Hondata.

The AEM is marketed as a consumer programmable system. I have looked at Speedpro, PowerFC, Hondata and most of the piggy back stuff. The AEM is the most comprehensive and the most difficult to use. Obviously if you are patient and willing to spend lots of time on the phone you could learn it and I am sure it would work great.

As more tuners and users become familiar with the AEM it should become more usable and I know AEM are attempting to simplify the software interface, but for now my vote goes to the Hondata hands down.

The Hondata customer service is also second to none, definitely the best purchasing experience I have had in the import industry. AEM also has good customer service but I have always managed to resolve issues much quicker working with Hondata, they are way easier to get in touch with.


Retraction:
In a previous post I mentioned that the AEM was not a true race ECU as it did not support calibration changes under full load. It turns out calibrations files can be written offline or online. And it certainly seems to have all the feature of other race ECU’s.

01geeser

great stuff

tararan

hey thanks for that feedback... now i need help..

what exactly is needed to run the hondata with my car???

im only planning on boosting 7-8 psi with my 00ex.. i dont wanna go cheap on my car, where it'll mess it up.. i want a reliable and a lil fast civic... but not too ridiculous with the spending.. its kinda hard to relate with the rest of the guys here cuz most of them are running over 10 psi... i've done research but not sure what exactly is needed for my application....

D-SPEED

www.hondata.com

tararan

let me ask your opinion on this

you think it's worth it for my application or would you recommend something else liek VAFC and stuff like that?? thanks

01geeser

you will need:
1.hondata stage ??? <==choose ur poison
2.OBD1 ecu (p28)
3.OBD2 to OBD1 converter
4.injectors 440cc,550cc,ect.
5.OBD1 injector clips
6.some dyno tuning

you might also want a rising rate fuel regulator.

philo

The nice thing with the Hondata is it is upgradeable, you can start with a 1B or 2B and upgrade if you want more options. Gets you in cheap, but still gives you an upgrade path.

SIK IN DA HED

Hondata is the way to go. I questioned myself lots of times if i should go with the hondata and at one point i had it ordered, but the delay made me change my mind and i cancelled the order. My plans for my car are not as high as all the honda-tech gurus on here. I run a simple setup. (5-7 lbs). The fmu/fuelpump/stock injector fuel managemen is fine. Not as reliable as a Hondata powered turbo machine... but it does the trick. The only thing you can do that is not as costly is upgrading your injectors to 310s and getting a lower fmu rate. Getting the AFC and all that **** is pointless. Just use the money to get the Hondata. You can get the 440cc injectors from BEN@importparts.com for $300 and the Hondata stage 2b from a groupbuy for $575. $875 well spent. Save a little more and get dyno tuned or ask any of the cool guys on here to help you out. Enough said.

tararan

thats what exactly im looking for.. thanks a lot.... i may just save money for the hondata...

why is another ECU required???? and what's the deal with the smog???


[Modified by tararan, 6:32 AM 3/19/2002]

93LSivic

Dude, this post isnt about the inner workings of hondata. DO NOT turn this thread into a question/answer about what hondata can do for you.
This thread has been eagerly waited upon by the whole board to see what somebody that has a direct experince with both systems has to say about them.

www.hondata.com will have every question answered for you that you can ask yourself.

Oh, by the way. Thanks Philo for this info. It will definetly answer mucho question that people would like to have answered.

SIK IN DA HED

there are numerous threads that discuss this issue. i have posted several threads on my own seeking answers. go check it out. lets not turn this into a hondata tech thread. lets keep it to the point:

HONDATA vs. AEM.

HONDATA wins!

Trigun

going hondata is pretty expensive. my hondata prepping cost me about $1800 and i don't even have the turbo yet

edit: whoops didn't mean to post another 'hondata' thing .. i posted half the msg and went away for 15 mins and hit post and saw like 4 new posts above me.


[Modified by Trigun, 10:58 PM 3/18/2002]

SIK IN DA HED

its ok, guys... youre just adding your $0.02 in.
daym, maybe i should re-order that Hondata.


[Modified by dlplayboy, 11:45 PM 3/18/2002]

98Psi ITR

I'm gonna stick it out with AEM. I'm working on idling now as well with a 3 bar map and 720's. However my time is very limited to about my lunch hr. to work on the car. I do catch JP anc JC when I call so they are around. Expect a bunch of upgrades since the unit is so new. I've seen up to version 50 on the firmware and new version 3.07 on the software. AEM unit has so many applications.

bruthaboost

Does the AEM offer feedback loops-ie pull back timing for knock, enrichen mixture from egt/02 sensors, boost control from lack of traction (abs sensors)?

philo

The AEM does offer feeback loops for every parameter it reads. The fact that it can use a UEGO to dynamically control the A/F ratio was one of the main selling points that got me.

I also liked the thought of inputing EGT and having that add some extra fuel when things get too hot.

All that is super cool, but if basic driveabilty is so hard to acheive, it makes all that other stuff kinda useless.

Like to set the idle, the AEM has 25 options and 4 variable scales. Hondata has only one. Cause it's a factory ECU all the parameters are internally set and work perfectly. This is a good example of the main difference between the two units.

X2BOARD

Good post...
I would love to see the follow up once you have the AEM up and running.... I have done some reading on it, and it seems like a system worth waiting for due to the flexibility, but since the Hondata seems to be so much easier to use, the AEM seems to need some development time.

abraunb16

Well I won't dispute the Hondata is easier to use and comes with better base programs. I can say it took my friend a couple hours to get his car to idle, then once he got it running he had to much ignition built in and it cost him the motor. Now the reason I went with AEM 1) it's cheaper 2) has more options(whether used or not) 3) on the fly tuning, no need to burn a new chip. I feel once the unit is installed and properly tuned it will without a doubt be a nice working standalone. The problem is that getting it to run is my main concern. I've been reading the manual trying to brush up on things to help me out. Later, Allen

turbopanda

i'll just stick with my Link ECU thank you. No rom burning. No laptop required. Fully standalone and stealth, replaces stock ECU board. Tunable by Link keypad. ALS, Full throttle shift, launch control, all the stuff hondata has, but without the hastles of burning roms. Boost control (gear/RPM/static), timing, fuel, vtec control, additional fuel injectors, etc etc.. made in New Zealand. And cheaper than hondata too.

DIRep972

iTrader: (1)

I just want to point out that hondata for OBD1 cars is a MUST! its unbelievably cheap.. I spent 550 on the 2b system, 50$ on DSM 450's and ill need about 200 for dyno time and tuning.. thats 800 dollars plus i get to sell my FMU, inline, and missing link to make some back.. You can get away w/ stock fuel rail, FPR, fuel lines, and fuel pump if u want and still have great running set up.. its up to u whether or not u want to go all out but comparing the price for hondata on OBD1 vs. FMU,inline, injectors, missing link, and AFC is about the same price..

sorry for the non AEM vs. hondata thread, i just wanted to put that in..

but yes it gets expensive if u go ALL out..

oh yeh I forgot to add also that if u want to control ign. timing with the AFC route u gotta buy an expensive as ignition.. too many factors when hondata does them all in one..


[Modified by DIRep972, 7:04 PM 3/19/2002]

bruthaboost

This has been very informative. I was contemplating about the EMS, however from the sound of your experience it seems it was a serious pain. Especially considering you would rather Hondata which means you are giving up feedback loops that could be setup to be an almost failsafe for your motor. Built in "J&S" and built in dynamic control of fuel via egt and wideband...dayam!, but I think that could be a very complicated matrix to design. Hmmmm.

Xerxes

very nice writeup philo!

quick question/s -- is this the full-race or the plug&play setup?

what exactly is the difference between them? i've heard some people say that they are the same, with just more options etc etc on the full race, and i've heard other people say that the ECUs are completely different, that one is based on the PMS and the other more like GEMS or something crazy like that...
what's the truth?

-Xerxes

abraunb16

I was told by AEM that they are the same, the race just has more options than the PnP. They said the PnP will do exactly what your looking for and no hard wiring involved, in my case run 9 lbs daily and 20-25 lbs at the track. HTH, Allen

philo

The system I have is the PnP. The race does not have more features, it just has more physical input/outputs as it doesnt use the factory harness. Funtionally they are the same.

I think PnP is a misleading name for the EMS. I have not seem anyone yet that has had a plug-n-play experience with it.

I am gonna hang on to the EMS for a while longer, largely due to the fact that no one wants it. I will continue to post feedback as I get my hand on new software releases. I am currently running v50.

dbman96

I'd be happy to buy it off you at some sort of cut rate.