ladysman

Now, I have read the "Wideband Tuning" from the Hondata site a few times but I know there are people on here that have made improvements over what was stated there. That has been on their site for a while and with the addition of "Autotune" feature, this should make my life easier.

I am mainly looking for some Hondata advice from Tuners that have experience with the new version 3 software (3.4 actually). I know Gruvytune has tuned many cars with this version and I believe Vaportrail has as well (Correct me if I am wrong). I guess I am looking for pointers. You know, where to start first, what to watch out for, avoid this, start static fuel pressure at this, Techedge suggestions, etc.

If I was close, I would have someone with experience on Hondata to tune it so I can learn it myself. However, I am too far from everybody so this is the reason I bought everything to do it myself (Wideband, Romulator, etc).

Now, my setup up includes the Hondata S200 (Dah), 800cc RC injectors (Good deal on them and I wanted to make sure I had enough to start), and Techedge Wideband v1.0, Built D16 (Stock for now but the block is at Golden Eagle as we speak) and a custom turbo kit with a Maxrev Manifold.

I was just going to PM some people but I know there are others out there that would like to know besides me.

Thanks in advance for the help.

ladysman

Bump.

ladysman

Come on guys. I know there is a wealth of Hondata Tuning info here!!!

skellator_thoj

iTrader: (1)

ladysman, did you get the hondata s200 w/all the options?? if so, how much did you get it for??

GruvyTune

i hate to sound like a bitch but, you need to take your car, hook everything up and spend like 50-100 hours playing. Now, I'm a very bright person and I catch on fast and I am very good at self learning. If that describes you, then great! I must say, that the hondata website has all the info you need to get started. I don't agree with all of it, despite the fact that they are the developers. After many hours of using their software, I like it for the most part. There are some bugs that I HOPE they work out.

I hate the autotune feature and find it a waste of time if you know how to tune. For the newbie, you may like it.

I can tell you adamantly, forget the dyno, concentrate on diligent street tuning. The dyno is good for 3 things only--getting HP numbers, wide open throttle tuning at high boost, and small timing changes that you wont be able to see or feel on the street.

good luck.

ladysman

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by GruvyTune &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i hate to sound like a bitch but, you need to take your car, hook everything up and spend like 50-100 hours playing. Now, I'm a very bright person and I catch on fast and I am very good at self learning. If that describes you, then great! I must say, that the hondata website has all the info you need to get started. I don't agree with all of it, despite the fact that they are the developers. After many hours of using their software, I like it for the most part. There are some bugs that I HOPE they work out.

I hate the autotune feature and find it a waste of time if you know how to tune. For the newbie, you may like it.

I can tell you adamantly, forget the dyno, concentrate on diligent street tuning. The dyno is good for 3 things only--getting HP numbers, wide open throttle tuning at high boost, and small timing changes that you wont be able to see or feel on the street.

good luck. </TD></TR></TABLE>


Gruvy,
Thanks for the reply. I knew more than anything I had to "experiment" with the system. Don't worry, you aren't sounding like a bitch either. I aprreciate your honest input. I am a bright person too ( I mean, what did you expect here ). I am a software developer (mainly VB) so I know how software works and operates so I think I can figure this out pretty easily.......I think.

A couple of questions though that may help to get me going:
1) Should I go with stock static fuel pressure to start? Higher? What have you found that works best with large injectors?
2) Why do you feel the autotune is useless waste of time?
3) What are the known problems I should look out for in the software?
4) Stock timing to start with?
5) Any settings that I need to make sure I do before I start to tune? (Besides turning off the knock sensor, and hooking up of the wideband stuff)
6) Set Cam Gear at zero? (mine is there anyway but I had to ask)

I was planning on street tuning in front of my parents house. It is in the country in the middle of know where so I think this would be best. I will go to the dyno later just to see what it does and fine tune a little.

Thanks a lot for the help again Gruvy. Do you mind if I could send you screen shots of my maps incase I have questions? Is the email address correct that is in your profile?

Thanks again for your help. I REALLY appreciate your reply.

Brad

spark

I'm very concerned by that, but how can you tune the timing on street session ?
This point is scarying me !

boosted hybrid

I'll give some insite into your questions:

1. Injectors are usually rated at their cc/min rating at 42psi of fuel pressure. I usually set the fpr to 42psi if the customer has one, if not I just stick with the stock 38psi.

2. I have always tuned the non-autotune way. I am getting seat time with the autotune feature this week so i will be able to form a decent opinion on it. I would think that you can make the changes faster without the autotune feature, but I will have to see. The romulator realtime is the biggest innovation I can see. It beats the old method of tuning the partial throttle maps, then turning off the car then loading the maps, then starting the car, etc.

3. The only problems that I have run into with the upgrade to the version 3.0 software is the lack of support for windows 98, and serial ports over 4. The version 3.4 took care of those problems, so I really dont see any other major problems with the newer software.

4. You have to match your timing with the hondata. Once the timing from the distributor and ecu match, your ready to go with the timing maps.

5. I always go over all the fields before I start tuning. Its pretty straight foward, so you shouldnt have to much of a problem.

6. I dont like adj cam gears, so I always leave them at 0,0.

The other thing that I can recommend that you do is take our your wastegate spring when you are tuning your partial throttle maps. You be able to tune the entire non-boost map to its fullest extent. If generate boost you'll climb out of the partial throttle/vacuum maps to quickly and wont be able to tune them.

PM-Performance

Still didnt try that autotune out yet? let me know how it goes

GruvyTune

watch the logger and compare your boost pressures with a reliable mechanical gauge, Hondata reads 3psi too low!!

also the ignition timing shows about 10deg too much advance in boost in the logger and romeditor

PM-Performance

whoa hondalogger reads lower boost &gt;? then my boost gauge might be right?
how do you know which is correct? my hondalogger when i dynoed said like 8psi , but my gauge said almost 10, so i figured the gauge was off, at the wg spring without a boost controller my gauge read like 8psi , but the spring is 6.5?
im all consufesed now .
i have the gauge, the hondalogger and my profec to measure boost which one do i trust?

Sorry for hijacking this post, but now im conerned

sparkz

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by GruvyTune &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">watch the logger and compare your boost pressures with a reliable mechanical gauge, Hondata reads 3psi too low!!

also the ignition timing shows about 10deg too much advance in boost in the logger and romeditor</TD></TR></TABLE>

I would trust what the map sensor sees versus a mechanical guage. BUt I have noticed that too, almost every setup Ive seen, mechanical guage reads about 1-2psi more vs honda logger

PM-Performance

Boostedhybrid told me he trusts the Hondalogger too becuase its actually reading the map.
i have soo many damn vac T's in my lines i dont knwo what the hell to trust.

ladysman

Thanks for the info guys. I will give it a whirl this weekend and let everyone know how it goes. I am SURE I will have some questions though.

Thanks again,

Brad

Islander

Boosted Hybrid, how do you recommend to match your distributor timing with the the Hondata(ecu)? I'm using the Stage 4 setup with a P28 ECU on a 1993 H22A1 Prelude.

Thanks

leed

Good Discussion

Regarding matching timing. I have read the post on the Hondata forums regarding this, but want to confirm.

My maps are set at 16.5 deg during idle. (Datalog in RomEditor reports 16.5)
I set my static before install at 14. RomEditor base keyed as 14

When I throw my gun on it, it says 13-14; even though RomEditor datalog reports 16.5.
This should be a simple case of moving my RomEditor 'base timing' entry to 12 to get them to match?

TIA


Okay, I know Im over complicating this. So tell me, If I load in x map into RomEditor and the go to settings and increase the base timing from say 14-16. The maps all jump down two degrees. If I save and burn this rom, is my timing across the board retarded, advanced, or the same.




Modified by leed at 2:32 AM 5/21/2003

ekb18c

Adjusting cam gears can reveal hidden power...
I used to think that if I left it on 0,0 that it would be the best, however, many dyno sessions later, I standed corrected especialy with a ported head.

I do not use the auto tune feature also. Makes you wonder how many people actually use or trust the auto tune feature huh?

http://www.hondata.com has great articles for you to read.

GruvyTune

listen, as it pertains to the psi readings...i have verified this on 5 cars now using 5 different pressure gauges and the dyno shop's MAP sensor and the hondalogger reads too low! I would not be concerned if it were not for verifying this so many times now,

as it pertains to timing maps...it is not important where you set your base timing number to. that is only a reference number by which the timing maps adjust relative to that. It is more critical that the timing you are logging matches what your timing light tells you. It is only from there you can determine what you timing will actually be from what the timing tables are set to.

torin

ladysman

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by GruvyTune &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">listen, as it pertains to the psi readings...i have verified this on 5 cars now using 5 different pressure gauges and the dyno shop's MAP sensor and the hondalogger reads too low! I would not be concerned if it were not for verifying this so many times now,

as it pertains to timing maps...it is not important where you set your base timing number to. that is only a reference number by which the timing maps adjust relative to that. It is more critical that the timing you are logging matches what your timing light tells you. It is only from there you can determine what you timing will actually be from what the timing tables are set to.

torin
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Gruvy,
Hondata has a new version of the software out, 3.5. I noticed that the change in this version was the calibration of the 3 bar map sensor. Not sure if this helps you but I thought I would share.

GruvyTune

yes, i just saw that. will have to play with it. I really don't want to have to take the time to actually do the calibrations myself given my limited time right now. i'll see what is involved. i hope they fix the ignition timing logger too. glad to see Derek is working out these little bugs! Now if only I can get my G-sensor calibrated right.

ladysman

Like I said before, I really appreciate yours, Boosted, and others who have contributed on this thread. I should have everything done with the turbo kit this weekend so I will start tuning/playing this once complete.

Thanks again.

Brad

boosted hybrid

Here is a quick review of the autotune feature that i have 2 hours of seat time on tonight:

Romulator fired the car up right away. I had some issues getting Rom editor to connect to for datalogging, but after some fiddling it turned out to be a loose connection between the com port cable connection. I set-up the autotune feature per hondata's website. I did everything per what the website directions. After 15 minutes I decided that I can tune the maps faster by freehand than letting the autotune feature do its thing. I'll continue to use the romulator but I'll just stick to making the changes myself.

Tsohc-tec's d16 is coming out very well. The partial throttle is tuned on point, now for a little late night boost break in/tuning on his freshly built engine. We'll have it to the dyno this weekend, so I'll have his dyno numbers posted by Sunday.