seen4ever

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PrecisionH23a &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Yea. All hondata has to do now is "suck" and it will be right up there with all the other crap that you guys call EMS's.</TD></TR></TABLE>

LOL, holy ****, that's perfect.

blundar

When Hondata has injector battery tables, a statistical engine behind datalogging and a better pricetag, I'll consider wholeheartedly recommending it instead of the usual "crap" EMSes.

This thread sucks. If Hondata were really that good, you would be able to talk about what makes it so good instead of putting down others.

Dee

Hahaha... one of my first "kills" with the Teg was against an EVO IV and now I own one

Mase - My car came with a Ralliart reflash for the normal add-ons that are "supposed" to produce 330~350whp (EVO VIII turbo, HKS manifold, HKS 76mm exhaust, 1.8bar boost, HKS intake and more). I am planning to "build" this car so I want something better than a reflash. Motec does not sell a plug-n-play M800 OEM for the CN9A/CP9A (EVO IV/V/VI/TME). I checked both the Japanese and the main Motec sites last week while doing research and I only saw info for the CT9A (EVO VII~IX). I do not have a desire to rewire the car so I am looking for PNP systems.

I have two friends here on the ROCK that are very familiar with FC-Datalogit so I am leaning towards the D-JETRO Power FC since the Autronics dealer here in Japan has a huge markup on the Autronics PNP ecu for a CN9A. D-JETRO PFC is $1100 while the autronics is $1700 and it doesn't like my Techedge 1.5 wideband according to Ray Hall.

Here's my plan for the EVO:
I'm eyeballin' two used kits for the EVO right now. Apex RX6 kit that comes with an 80mm Ti TBE(turbo back exhaust) and a Trust T67 (Mitsubishi) kit. Both kits come with Stainless manifold, turbo, wastgate, FMIC and all piping. Engine will be stretched to 2.3liters with the proper internals and I will be using Tomei 270* or 280* cams with Tomei lifters & springs. Clutch will be upgraded from the current ORC409D single to an ATS carbon twin. All diffs will get changed to aftermarket clutch setups(1way front/1.5way rear and Route6 mechanical center diff). The AYC equipped GSR rearend will get swappped for a mechanical RS setup. Aftermarket RS diffs are plentiful while aftermarket AYC cost twice as much and not many companies make a diff for the oddball AYC pumpkin. Mitsubishi also does not sell individual parts for the AYC diff and they want $3500 for an AYC assembly.

The car will be used in the modified Gymkhana class and for zeroyon (0-400m).

Back on Topic:
Somebody needs to tickle Hondata's fancy so they will make an attempt to correct the billet MSD ignition incompatibility issues. OEM works with MSD so Hondata should too........... right ??

Mase

the power FC works decent enough, all that you mentioned will get the job done.

as for the AYC, its funny you mentioned you were going to get rid of it. the fq340 im building, we decided to leave it on for now. we're going to see if it can hold 600 awhp. only thing we are doing to the drive train is going w/ some Drive Shaft Shop stage 5 axles in front and rear, twin disc and quaife front LSD. this isnt a drag car, but a top end car.

Since this car still is going to be driven on the street, we are leaving the stock 6 speed in there, if it explodes, we'll probably go with a holinger dog box but its a little harsh for street use.

last bit, is why do you want tomei cams? i had some dyno charts sent to me that the jun's made a bit of improvement

im going to be doing some testing between the cosworth m2's vs jun 272's once i get it up and running...

good luck with it

Mase

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by blundar &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">When Hondata has injector battery tables, a statistical engine behind datalogging and a better pricetag, I'll consider wholeheartedly recommending it instead of the usual "crap" EMSes.

This thread sucks. If Hondata were really that good, you would be able to talk about what makes it so good instead of putting down others.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Oh God, are you serious?

miller

off topic, give the piper cams a try on your evo.

92HB_HB

back on topic..

WILL Hondata also update/upload our tuned maps from our old systems to the s300 when they send it back?? That way u dont have to get re-tuned in order to drive the car..

PrecisionH23a

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by blundar &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
This thread sucks. If Hondata were really that good, you would be able to talk about what makes it so good instead of putting down others.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Let's see.... Real-time updating of ecu, usb connection and engine protection functions (lean conditions, protection from over-boost, etc) are just a few things that come to mind. It's also nice to call up and get tech support if you ever need any straight from Hondata... instead of going to some forum and having some other guys who use the stuff give you an educated guess.

It's nice to street tune a car without having to pull over to the side of the road and view a datalog, make changes, upload the new .bin to the ecu, restart the car, merge back into traffic, do another pull, and repeat the process again. It's also nice not having to watch the boost gauge as well as tachometeter to guess where in the vacuum/rpm table that ignition/fueling needs to be changed at when not using datalogging.

I'm **** when it comes to tuning and I don't let a car leave until I am 110% satisfied with the tune. Sorry, but with all this 'freeware' just takes way too long, not to mention I'm never satisfied with the result. Time is money and I don't have time to dick around on the dyno because the customer cannot afford a decent EMS. Our clientelle consists of guys who are not on budgets. I know this will offend probably 1/2 of you out there, but the majority of the freeware EMS set-ups I see are half-assed and hardly ever running right. I know guys have used uberdata and made 500whp+ and ran times in the 10's. But compare the time spent on tuning that set-up compared to an ems such as Hondata or AEM EMS. You'll find that the tuning time is way less.

So this is why I run systems like Hondata, AEM EMS, and Haltech on the Honda cars that I do.

blundar

PrecisionH23a, you've made some very valid criticisms and some not-so valid criticisms. You're also comparing apples to oranges here. Also, you're lumping everything not-Hondata together - the same criticisms do not apply to Crome and Uberdata, let alone Neptune.

Are we talking about S300 or S100? Last time I checked, S100 did not have USB connection OR real-time updating.
Neptune has BLUETOOTH WIRELESS in addition to USB - how's that compare eh?

Neptune, Crome, Uberdata all have overboost protection.
Lean protection is something that I've only seen work halfway properly on AEM.

This is probably you're most valid criticism. Support is key - documentation too. To this end, some of us are working on commercial-style phone and email support with guaranteed response times for Neptune and Crome. We feel that this service will help add value to already solid solutions.

I'm not sure what you're getting at here. Neptune, Crome and Uberdata all have solid datalogging.
Neptune with the RTP board acts just like a S300 would in this respect.
Crome with an Ostrich/Romulator acts just like tuning a S200 car - you need a cable for datalogging and a emulator for realtime changes.

I can tune a car in half the time with Crome vs. S200/S100. The datalogging engine in Crome does statistics on logged data, making it a lot easier to get the data you want without spurious points from tip-in, let off, etc.
Neptune's datalogging is just as good as S200/S300.

I envy you having a customer base that is willing to spend the money for Hondata, AEM, Haltech and other products. I'm not going to argue that you can't do a good job with these. I think you're being totally unfair to Neptune, quite unfair to Crome and somewhat unfair to Uberdata.

I never use Uberdata anymore personally, but that's more because I can do a better job faster with Crome or Neptune.

To each their own.

PrecisionH23a

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by blundar &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">PrecisionH23a, you've made some very valid criticisms and some not-so valid criticisms. You're also comparing apples to oranges here. Also, you're lumping everything not-Hondata together - the same criticisms do not apply to Crome and Uberdata, let alone Neptune.

Are we talking about S300 or S100? Last time I checked, S100 did not have USB connection OR real-time updating.
Neptune has BLUETOOTH WIRELESS in addition to USB - how's that compare eh?
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Neptune is not free, but in my opinion is a great unit. I have not worked with them as I am not a dealer. The s100/200 units do not have USB, correct. But in order to tune those units you need the s200b unit for real-time updating. Meaning, as a tuner it doesn't affect me since I have the goodies to get the options that I like to work with.


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by blundar &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

This is probably you're most valid criticism. Support is key - documentation too. To this end, some of us are working on commercial-style phone and email support with guaranteed response times for Neptune and Crome. We feel that this service will help add value to already solid solutions. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Nobody works for free... that's why Hondata is not free. You can't move onto bigger and better things while not getting paid for it. That's the name of the game of business.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by blundar &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I envy you having a customer base that is willing to spend the money for Hondata, AEM, Haltech and other products. I'm not going to argue that you can't do a good job with these. I think you're being totally unfair to Neptune, quite unfair to Crome and somewhat unfair to Uberdata.</TD></TR></TABLE>


Again, the reason I did not mention Neptune is because I have never worked with the unit. But thanks for pointing that unit out, it definetely gets a thumb up from me.


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by blundar &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
To each their own. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Yep

seen4ever

i disagree with the rock solid datalogging part for uber and crome. Uberdata is spotty to say the least and crome hasn't let me datalog since i upgraded from the 1.8 beta to the 1.8 real version, all i get is cannot connect to Ecu errors constantly with my hondalug.

my xtronic romulator will not work with crome as well. I plug it into a hondata car and i'm up and running in 10 minutes. I know the common response is check your port settings, but they are the exact same with the moates drivers that everyone recommends. I just don't understand why something can work perfect on hondata and not work at all on crome.

I will say, the times I have gotten crome to datalog, it was an amazingly fast tool to tune. I would compare it to the s300. Yet then again, there are the bugs with the vtec oil pressure switch which has the option to disable, but never click that option, as it really doesn't exist. That's the few things that disappointed me. I bought all the recommends hardware for the software, pay the 'Pro' fee and its still a beta product. Hondata is slow to move products, but I'd rather have a random CEL pop on for o2 sensor, than connectivity issues.

seen4ever

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Dee &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Somebody needs to tickle Hondata's fancy so they will make an attempt to correct the billet MSD ignition incompatibility issues. OEM works with MSD so Hondata should too........... right ??

</TD></TR></TABLE>

are you talking about the billet distributor from MSD?

Dee

Mase - I can get the Tomei setup with cams, lifters, springs, plus more and a port job from a shop in Fukuoka Japa for a really good price. I am still debating on the size 270* with 11.5 lift or 280* with 11.5 lift. There's also a choice of solid lifters with lash killers or hydraulic lifters for high lift cams. I am looking at other cams/combos (Jun 280*, G/Force 280*) but the money factor is one of the deciding factors. I will most likely visit Jun Auto Mechanic in January while I am in town for TAS '07.

The shop in Fukuoka also has a used Cockpit Zeal 5-speed dog box that comes with an Ikeya Formula Sequential shifter for $4k. This tranny is from an EVO V that got parted out after the owner bought an EVO IX RS for Gymkhana and Circuit racing. Only 50 of these $6k combo's were produced(sold) by CZ.

Oops... I forgot to add something to the argument

Ummmm... Most of the people who gripe about Hondata's functionality either haven't used Hondata or are too lazy to put more effort into their "tunes". Too many people want an ECU that will make their bed, wipe their ***, find them a hoochie and keep her happy, earn their college degree, put their illegitimate rugrats through college and last but not least ...................produce 700whp from a setup that doesn't have the parts that are needed to make 300whp

I'm willing to give Neptune but I have to sell my stockpile of Hondata stuff first. The window shoppers are KILLING me!!

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by seen4ever &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

are you talking about the billet distributor from MSD?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yeah, I never installed mine but I was totally shocked I saw one of the replies on Hondata's forum.

Question from a member: What needs to be done to make the billet MSD dizzy work with S300?

Hondata answer: Use a stock dizzy because S300 is not compatible with the MSD dizzy.

Mase

Dee, good luck with your setup.


JUN's products are amazing, i was super impressed with their stroker kit. their crankshaft is amazing, now we'll see if it performs as good as it looks.

im using their lash killer setup in the cosworth head. hopefully its a lot better than the BS solid lifter kit that was on the other head.