Hondata BBG and Solenoid issues
12-03-2012, 10:00 AM
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Hondata BBG and Solenoid issues
Alright so heres the problem.
I've had BBG and solenoid working all year but recently its only running off wastegate pressure. I had a metric f*cking ton of boost leaks and fixed them all still only wastegate pressure. I was diagnosing last night and set the parameters to what Hondata guy said on their forum to make it click/buzz when key on engine on/off but nothing happens. They said to watch the PWM datalog and it stays at 99% no matter what.
Nothing. any ideas?
I've had BBG and solenoid working all year but recently its only running off wastegate pressure. I had a metric f*cking ton of boost leaks and fixed them all still only wastegate pressure. I was diagnosing last night and set the parameters to what Hondata guy said on their forum to make it click/buzz when key on engine on/off but nothing happens. They said to watch the PWM datalog and it stays at 99% no matter what.
One way you can check is to set the boost control to FIXED duty and set it to like 30% duty.
Check the box for variable frequency and set it to 31hz.
Then set the activation pressure to like 100mbar (change units to mbar).
Then start the car and walk out to the engine bay and see if you can feel the solenoid clicking. You should also see the PWM data log value at 30% with the car running and idling, to ensure that the ECU is actually is outputting a pwm signal.
If the solenoid is not clicking, then I would suggest looking into the ECU as the source of the problem (if you doubled checked your wiring).
Check the box for variable frequency and set it to 31hz.
Then set the activation pressure to like 100mbar (change units to mbar).
Then start the car and walk out to the engine bay and see if you can feel the solenoid clicking. You should also see the PWM data log value at 30% with the car running and idling, to ensure that the ECU is actually is outputting a pwm signal.
If the solenoid is not clicking, then I would suggest looking into the ECU as the source of the problem (if you doubled checked your wiring).
Nothing. any ideas?
12-03-2012, 11:19 AM
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Re: Hondata BBG and Solenoid issues
From hondata forum:
Also no luck.
Is it the BBG components that have gone bad, any way to test those? I also read in a older version of putting a diode from a11 to the 12v on solenoid side but in recent versions of help file it says nothing of that sort..
Ok guys, lets simplify things a bit to help you figure this out.
This is for the Mac style valve as seen here: http://www.hondata.com/images/hondata_s ... _small.jpg
First, test to make sure that the solenoid is working.
1. Set the boost control solenoid type to "Maximum boost at 100% duty/normally closed"
2. Set the boost control parameters. Do this by first enabling the boost control, and then putting it in fixed duty cycle mode, set the fixed duty to say, 40%.
3. Set the activation pressure to 0 Kpa. (this is off the top of my head)
4. Turn on the ignition (do not start the car) and upload the program.
At this point, the solenoid should be buzzing. If it is not making noise, verify that the PWM components were properly installed, have the solenoid tested, or re-check electrical connections. Do not continue until the solenoid is working.
If the solenoid works, verify the vacuum line connections:
This is for the Mac style valve as seen here: http://www.hondata.com/images/hondata_s ... _small.jpg
First, test to make sure that the solenoid is working.
1. Set the boost control solenoid type to "Maximum boost at 100% duty/normally closed"
2. Set the boost control parameters. Do this by first enabling the boost control, and then putting it in fixed duty cycle mode, set the fixed duty to say, 40%.
3. Set the activation pressure to 0 Kpa. (this is off the top of my head)
4. Turn on the ignition (do not start the car) and upload the program.
At this point, the solenoid should be buzzing. If it is not making noise, verify that the PWM components were properly installed, have the solenoid tested, or re-check electrical connections. Do not continue until the solenoid is working.
If the solenoid works, verify the vacuum line connections:
Is it the BBG components that have gone bad, any way to test those? I also read in a older version of putting a diode from a11 to the 12v on solenoid side but in recent versions of help file it says nothing of that sort..
12-03-2012, 12:09 PM
#3
Re: Hondata BBG and Solenoid issues
It could be inverted. Make the conditions so the output is always on.
Try fixed duty 25%, then try 50% then try 75% etc.
If its working, you should audibly hear the solenoid buzzing with the change in frequency.
The static duty should match the datalog. If it doesnt then something is wrong with the way its setup in the software.
Did you verify the solenoid is getting 12v?
Try fixed duty 25%, then try 50% then try 75% etc.
If its working, you should audibly hear the solenoid buzzing with the change in frequency.
The static duty should match the datalog. If it doesnt then something is wrong with the way its setup in the software.
Did you verify the solenoid is getting 12v?
12-03-2012, 12:16 PM
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Re: Hondata BBG and Solenoid issues
Solenoid is getting 12v switched. I've tried fdc of 20 thru 60%. the pwm datlog shows 99% regardlessofcondition...
12-03-2012, 12:38 PM
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Re: Hondata BBG and Solenoid issues
I think that proves there is something wrong with the software configruation then. The output should reflect the static duty cycle you are set.
If its truly outputting 99% it should activate the solenoid set at either normally closed or normally open. Try switching between the two.
If its truly outputting 99% it should activate the solenoid set at either normally closed or normally open. Try switching between the two.
12-03-2012, 01:32 PM
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Re: Hondata BBG and Solenoid issues
Tried that too, Muck. This issue has been plaguing me for weeks. Many disappointing times at the track too. I'm seriously fed up with it. I'm thinking its the BBG components in the ECU or the ECU itself. I took it apart and it looks a tad bit hot where those transistors and capacitors were installed. Will upload pic shortly.
12-03-2012, 01:35 PM
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Re: Hondata BBG and Solenoid issues
Also in an older version of SManagers help file it shows to put a diode on the solenoid between the output and power, however, in the new version its been revised and removed. Any reason for this? Think it could have had a voltage spike and blown out the components for the PWM on the output?
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12-03-2012, 01:37 PM
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Re: Hondata BBG and Solenoid issues
Just a thought but my laptop is windows7, could that be causing any issues with the realtime update or uploading of calibrations? If so I do have a Vista desktop i could reach to the car since its in the garage.
12-03-2012, 01:47 PM
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Re: Hondata BBG and Solenoid issues
have you tryed to just pulse the Mac with 12v to see if it does operate
also the way to find out if your having issues with win7 is do live update changes to
your IAC duty cycle in parameters this will move your idle around and show
if live update is working or not
also the way to find out if your having issues with win7 is do live update changes to
your IAC duty cycle in parameters this will move your idle around and show
if live update is working or not
12-03-2012, 03:36 PM
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Re: Hondata BBG and Solenoid issues
I pulsed the mac with a ground because its hooked up to 12v power and it does operate, so does my Ingersoll Rand solenoid that I had originally. so it was never a solenoid issue if two different solenoids are doing the same thing, nothing.
I will try the IAC thing in a bit I got to walk the dog :/
I will try the IAC thing in a bit I got to walk the dog :/
12-03-2012, 05:27 PM
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Re: Hondata BBG and Solenoid issues
have you checked the wire going to the ECU has no breaks
try triggering it from the ecu plug
if it passes that test you might need to look at the ECU 2 see if the PWM circuit is installed or has failed/ burnt out
try triggering it from the ecu plug
if it passes that test you might need to look at the ECU 2 see if the PWM circuit is installed or has failed/ burnt out
12-03-2012, 07:11 PM
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Re: Hondata BBG and Solenoid issues
Yup, triggered it with power probe from the ECU and it functions. I'm guessing the PWM components have failed. No one has answered my question of the DIODE that hondata used to say to install at the solenoid between power and ECU signal.
Where should the power be supplied from? The guy that installed it attached it to the alt. output, no fuse or diode.
Where should the power be supplied from? The guy that installed it attached it to the alt. output, no fuse or diode.
12-04-2012, 12:33 AM
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Re: Hondata BBG and Solenoid issues
the power should be from either the fuse box under dash
with ign on or from a 12v at the ecu power source
and re the diode its not needed im not running one on myn
have a look in the hondata help files and you will find the ecu12v
you can use it as the solinoid only draws a tiny current
with ign on or from a 12v at the ecu power source
and re the diode its not needed im not running one on myn
have a look in the hondata help files and you will find the ecu12v
you can use it as the solinoid only draws a tiny current
12-04-2012, 04:52 AM
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Re: Hondata BBG and Solenoid issues
I noticed that as well when i first used BBG. THey never had Diode in instructions then added it; and took it off again. Its really not needed if everything is setup correctly...All a diode does is it allows electricity to only flow in one direction. So if you originally setup BBG without the Diode something was not hooked up correctly it could essentially let voltage into the ECU where it shoudnt be. So maybe its possible you burned out the PWM componets.
Seems you have checked everything id tell you too. Your next steps would be swapping the PWM components. Maybe contact Hondata for Troubleshooting.
My guess is PWM componets installed incorrectly and/or burned out. OR the ECU itself ( do you have a friend with BBG you can switch ECU's with?)
Seems you have checked everything id tell you too. Your next steps would be swapping the PWM components. Maybe contact Hondata for Troubleshooting.
My guess is PWM componets installed incorrectly and/or burned out. OR the ECU itself ( do you have a friend with BBG you can switch ECU's with?)
12-04-2012, 08:28 AM
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Re: Hondata BBG and Solenoid issues
You think since the voltage at the alternator is 13.39v it could have over volted the PWM components and blown it after continuous usage without the diode? I was going to re-wire the solenoid to the fuse panel and add a fuse to it. It was working for about 5 months but I hardly drive the car and rarely sees boost in 3rd and 4th when the solenoid would be active any how. Atleast I got it figured out now.
Now my question is could I simply replace the components that were added or could it have taken out that entire circuit on the ECU? That would be shitty.
Its a P61 with the knock sensor board removed if that has any useful information.
Now my question is could I simply replace the components that were added or could it have taken out that entire circuit on the ECU? That would be shitty.
Its a P61 with the knock sensor board removed if that has any useful information.
12-04-2012, 09:23 AM
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Re: Hondata BBG and Solenoid issues
Knock sensor board removed?? what do you mean by that? why wasnt it just disabled in the S300 software?
Also the only way it burned out would be if it was installed incorrectly. Or somethign was wired incorrectly.
Also 13.3 volts is low for voltage for a operating system. That wouldnt make any difference tho in how the solenoid works; wheteher it was 12v or 14V
It a pretty straight forward install, so if its not working im thinking you definaltly have ECU issues. whether that is PWM componets or ECU itslef. Did you contact Hondata? maybe they have a trouble shoot flow chart or something
Also the only way it burned out would be if it was installed incorrectly. Or somethign was wired incorrectly.
Also 13.3 volts is low for voltage for a operating system. That wouldnt make any difference tho in how the solenoid works; wheteher it was 12v or 14V
It a pretty straight forward install, so if its not working im thinking you definaltly have ECU issues. whether that is PWM componets or ECU itslef. Did you contact Hondata? maybe they have a trouble shoot flow chart or something
12-04-2012, 09:55 AM
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Re: Hondata BBG and Solenoid issues
The P61 has a GIANT knock sensor board in it, so when you put in a S300 the casing doesn't close without spacers in which the S300 would wiggle loose off the socket. So we removed the board, but yes its disabled in SManager.
Its 13.9v on the alternator idk why i hit the 3. But wouldn't that send the higher voltage to the ECU completing the circuit by grounding it?
Like i said the only wiring that is done is the solenoid to alternator output and solenoid to PWM input on ECU.
Its 13.9v on the alternator idk why i hit the 3. But wouldn't that send the higher voltage to the ECU completing the circuit by grounding it?
Like i said the only wiring that is done is the solenoid to alternator output and solenoid to PWM input on ECU.
12-04-2012, 10:03 AM
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Re: Hondata BBG and Solenoid issues
I mean, if you got 12v going in hot, you got 12v coming out when grounded, it doesn't magically lose voltage without a voltage regulator that would have to be built into the solenoid. So having it at the alternator output its sending 13.9~14.7 volts in and out back to the ECU which is a 12v circuit. In theory wouldn't that blow **** thats not rated for higher than 12v over time??
12-04-2012, 10:49 AM
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Re: Hondata BBG and Solenoid issues
Anyway to test the PWM components? I tried to ohm the components but nothing. Then again I've never tried to test a capacitor / transistors like that before.
12-04-2012, 11:25 AM
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Re: Hondata BBG and Solenoid issues
I googled it. I'll test those when I get home tonight. Either way I'll replace those before the ECU or just go to a manual boost controller, though electronic is way more awesome. Especially when I hook up low/high boost table switching haha.
12-04-2012, 07:19 PM
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Re: Hondata BBG and Solenoid issues
i checked the transistors and capacitor with volt meter and they are ok, im guessing its a software issue of some sort. this is reallly starting to get f(ckin annoying. going from >450 hp to <250 = lame
Last edited by red96turbols; 12-04-2012 at 07:20 PM. Reason: fix