I need to know if ant of you have seen a set-up with 12.5 SCR and about 10psi. running and what sort of management did it utilize. It would also be nice to know the A/F ratio they were running.

Please no negative B.S. I've already seen it run with 5 psi. without an intercooler so I know it can be done. I just need an idea of how far I can push
before detonation is unavoidable.

 

all i have to say is it better be tuned nicely, detonation would be real easy with 12.5 cr and 10psi...just my .02

 

The highest CR I would EVER go with NO MATTER how much boost, would be 11:1.

Combustion is just so unstable at that CR and is needless to say VERY hard to tune.

All I am trying to say, is that the negative effects of that high of CR would FAR OUT WEIGHT the benefits.

Do what ever the hell you want however.

 

You can run as much comp. you want in a turbo app. as long as it is tuned and able to be be tuned correctly. Thats a little crazy for street use though.

 

Pump gas or race gas? I don't think you'd even be able to run that on pump, so don't try.

 

crazy high compression. Keep it lower so you can run pump gas or be prepared to shell out $$$$$$$$ every time you fill up

 

damn where do you live, because we can't get 110 octane at the pump in upstate NY. lol

 

Umm 14:1 SCR works with our 91 octane here in Wisconsin. It's all about how the head flows and the piston design in accordance to the head dimentions IE valve relief, quench zone, High speed exhaust ports. I'm also going to add alcohol injection so I can advance the timing while at the track. I'm hoping to be able to make around 700whp out of 2.0 liters. We'll see. I'd like to see more people actually pushing the limits of the designs instead of buying off the shelf items to make power. Those parts are cheap for a reason. Don't mind me I can be a ***** sometimes.


In the future I hope to make even more power than that.


[Modified by tzsir, 5:48 PM 12/5/2002]

 

With 10 psi of boost? That was the original question

 

"700hp"



My ***.

From what I have gotten out of you so far, I frankly DON'T think you will reach that goal....

sorry

Hope you got a couple hundred thousand dollars to throw around like pocket change

 

sorry man, but even if you do make "700whp" (which I dont think will happen) have you even thought of how you are going to get that power to the ground?? In my opinion you should be more worried about traction than high hp #'s. 700 hp would be great, but it does no good if the tires wont hook-up......hope you have plenty of money to spend on suspension, tranny, axles, and all the other parts you would be breaking.......

 

Gee um making my own quite durable drive shafts from chevy truck universals and forged chrome-moly would be a good way to start with the power transfer issue. Also they do make some really big slicks now-a-days especially ones for a domestic dragster. Think in a broader aspect than just what the "Pro" guys tell you. After all do you really think they like to give away all the secrets. There are all kinds of tricks to dragging, you just have to ask the right people at the right time. I like how you say that 700whp isn't possible when about seven or eight years ago a 500whp door slamming, daily grind was said to be impossible. Oh yeah I almost forgot 14:1scr with Stoich, if you know what that is, so imagine a 12.0:1 A/F with 12.5 with 10psi all I wanted to know was if someone has heard of it or seen it anywhere before, but all I received was flaming and jealousy. I was under the impression we were here to help each other and not hinder each other.


So take your pessimistic attitudes and shove them up your ARZZses. It's not my fault you don't know what you're doing.


[Modified by tzsir, 11:04 PM 12/5/2002]

 

wasnt trying to flame you man, I was just saying that I dont think it is possible to make 700hp on 10 psi.......

 

Not really directing that at anyone really. I've been flamed for most of my posts on this set-up I'm working on currently. I know it won't make 700whp with 10psi
It'll take about thirty pounds of boost to do that. I figure ten pounds will net. me about 350-450whp. Which isn't that big of a deal with the gains from such high compression causing a much broader torque curve, maybe even a flat one. We'll see when we get the block back together. I'll definately post the dyno sheets for all to see. I just don't like how long it is taking to get all the parts back.

 

We're using a progressive alcohol injection set-up we ghetto rigged with some 310cc injectors from an eclipse. Just haven't set it up to run with it yet. Waited to see how far we can go without it.

 

12.0:1 is not stoich buddy
And with 12.5:1 compression and ONLY 10 lbs you are not going to get anywhere near 700 hp. Try maybe 30 pounds or so. Even then good luck.

You are asking a question that seems kind of ridiculous. And you say that the people here dont know what they are doing. Well I have news for you, they do. There are a couple 9 second cars on here, so I would have to say they are doing something right

 

Umm yeah can you read? Then try reading it again there buddy. Stoich is 14:1 as I stated previously. I also said 700whp with about 30psi too. Please quit making a fool of yourself it's disgraceful to the rest that do know what they're doing and can read. I wanted to know if anyone else is trying what I'm doing that's all there cheif. Thank you have a nice day and come again *****. Oh I forgot ANYONE with enough money or enough time can build a 9sec. car. I know plenty of people not on this site that own 9sec. imports; that include Honda's. Not everyone frequents the tracks all the time.


[Modified by tzsir, 2:18 PM 12/6/2002]

 

It can be done, but I'd take it easy off of race gas. Alchohol, water, or methanol...you have the right idea. Besides that, some really good tuning, and whatever other cooling methods that are available. I figure that after you have tuned the motor well, the temperatures will be what you have to concentrate on the most. However...if you have the funding and backing to do it, more power to you, and I'd love to see it happen.

PS: Just a word of advice...most people here are anti-compression, so when you talk about compression here, just take it all in stride, because most responses will be very negative. But regardless, good luck!

 

I for one, am doing about the same thing you are. I just don't want to say anything until I have proof and concrete numbers. And I won't be finished until like Feb so I'm trying to be discrete. But.....I have to say I agree with your points. Looking at 25+ psi on 12.5:1 possibly on Methanol, rather than C17, haven't chose my injectors yet. Damn, there goes my setup.
Anyway, best of luck and be sure to keep us informed

 

If you want cheap injectors to save for the cooling system like I know you'll need just check out the ford racing divisions mustang injectors. They require slight modification to the fuel rail, but you get eight for the price of four RC brand. You can also get higher flowing injectors and have four left over foranother engine build up, or smaller ones and have staged injectors for a better idle (more streetable then) all for the same price. That I like. Those magazines sometimes are right on the money, but not always unfortunately. Oh I almost forgot I'm doing it with pump gas. I ran it already with 12.5:1 & 5psi on pump gas and the temps were about normal for a non-intercooled engine with 7psi. and SCR of 11.0:1. When I get my piston design ready I'll feel better with more boost. Yet once again the $$ gremlins are in town. I can't wait I wish I had a sponsor though.


[Modified by tzsir, 4:37 PM 12/6/2002]

 

That's not true Matt, I love compression!! I for one, don't believe in lower the compression to 9:1 when turbo charging a motor! In my humble opinion the ideal comrpession is 10.2:1 for street driven cars.

 

Oh, **** streetability. If we use 4 they'll be were the secondaries should be, and the primary holes would be plugged (better dispersion). But I would like to have more finite control and use 8. Possibly 440's (cause I already have them) closer and 997's farther away.
But hell, I'm just tossing these ideas around in my head, it'll probably be completely different when it comes to decideing how to control the fuel, injector-wise.

Hmm, I was with ya until you said pump gas. Not that I don't agree with the whole 12.5:1 and 5psi thing. I think its doable, sort of. But you can't argue with physics, and 91 oct will only go so far, until you've retarded timing enough to catch up to the EX valve.
But still, I like messing with things that need to be messed with.

 

I'm all about physics. It's the physics of the piston design. I use N/A style JE's from Endyn. They do wonders with that design. Mine are polished and matched to the combustion chamber of the head. Believe me if it's designed correctly you can push it farther than you would think is possible with the given media. Also air-liquid intercooler and alcohol injection set-up like I stated before will help greatly. I worked the numbers for 3 years before I sat down and decided to build this beast. If you've beenpaying attention they've been rewriting the physics books in the past four years. A lot of change in the scientific community is going to be happening shortly. Old rules are being proven to be constant in a few limited ways. When you change the shapes the physics that we were going on are worthless. It's all in the piston design, and effeciency is the key word here. Trust me on this one I prove it can be done when I get it together.


[Modified by tzsir, 6:18 PM 12/6/2002]

 

I am Alky/Water is great for high boost. Doesn't do much for low boost though. You're still going to have a really high effective compression ratio trying to boost a 12.5:1 motor, and I think that's what would make it hard to run on pump gas, not high air temps.