So that those of you who read this will take me seriously, here is my setup, and my goals:

2000 Acura Integra LS
sr20det t28 turbo
450cc dsm injectors w/ resistor box
Street Tuned on w/band with s-afc (conservative)

Currently I am only running .5 - .55 bar (depending on creep/temp/etc)

I have had a taste of a Honda on boost, and I am addicted and want to take it to the limit. I went a best 12.812 at 107 - I want more.

I am currently planning out exactly what I need to purchase for a full bulit race engine. I have already decided on the 2.0 block from dart, and the crower stroker kit.

My main concern for this thread is the head. I have heard a lot of conflicting information on heads, along with unnecessary bashing of shops, etc - please only offer input if you have personal experience. I do not need any he said/ she said information as that is everyone on automotive boards and is 90% BS.

The LS head does not flow as well as the GSR head - This I understand
I also understand how much $$$ it takes to get a LS head re-worked.

In your experience, would it be better to simply (ok, not so simple) slap on a better flowing head,

or

Pay to get an LS head worked over

This is my dilemma - now, if you have experience with Porting/Polishing on LS heads, and have dyno sheets to show before/after - please let me know who did the work, and how I can get in contact with them.

Please do not comment if you do not know FOR SURE! He said/she said is not welcome in this thread - I want facts. Although I gratefully welcome theories, as that is what got us all this far.

Does anyone have a dyno sheet of their car w/ ls head and a dyno sheet after a swap to a gsr head?

Does anyone have any valuable information that may aid me in making this decision?

I plan to build the head fully, and would like to move my powerband up a bit. I am thinking 4500-8000. I do not have a specific stopping point in terms of horsepower. I don't want 250, 350, 450 or even 500. I want to take it to the limit of physics. While I'm not rich, I do have patience and will complete the project over time.

Any information on this would be very greatly appreciated - thank you for your time in reading this everyone.

 

Since you have high expectactions, I would recommened you go with a VTEC head. It can rev higher (considering block and head have been built properly) And there are more aftermarket parts for VTEC head.

I'm not ******* the LS head, But more potential for VTEC. besides you can build a head right now and swap it in w/o the down time

 

It would be in your best interest to work the Ls head. Considering the price differences between the two. Vtec heads flow better because honda designed them to flow better. However, if you spend the money on valvetrain and a good port job with some nice cams you'll forget all about vtec. You can make an Ls head flow and rev just as hi as a vtec head for less.

 

Now, If I do go with a VTEC head, and go through the work of tapping new holes in the block, running lines, etc.

I have heard that the rod/stroke ratio on an LS/VTEC jeopardizes a level of reliability. I am by no means stating this as truth, but as something I have heard and I would like to know if there is any truth to it?

What is it about a VTEC head that allows it to rev higher than a LS head?

 

Ekhatch00 - do you know of any reputable shops that do head work? I have heard a lot of "shop bashing" and while I am not a fan of bashing ones work, I DO want to get the best work done that I can possibly get.

It would make my heart sink if I spent $1000 + and sent off my head to get worked over, only to get it back, put it on and get a dyno readout that shows no/minimal gain.

 

if you want some good work goto http://www.exospeed.com for a good and not uber expensive head job

 

Thank you for the info Sideout!

Have you heard anything positive/negative about Exospeed's Camshafts? I am not familiar with the company.

Do you know what all parts of the head they are working on when they say port/polish (bowls, etc?)

 

give them a call up, i know they do different things depending on the application. I have not herd any bad about exospeed cams, alot of SOHC guys run their stuff with no problem so i dont see why their DOHC products would have any less quality

 

I saw a dyno chart of a 5-600whp non vtec, turbo honda. It was posted not too long ago, someone asked a question almost exactly like this. I'll try to find it.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DragSource &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Now, If I do go with a VTEC head, and go through the work of tapping new holes in the block, running lines, etc.
I have heard that the rod/stroke ratio on an LS/VTEC jeopardizes a level of reliability. I am by no means stating this as truth, but as something I have heard and I would like to know if there is any truth to it?
What is it about a VTEC head that allows it to rev higher than a LS head?</TD></TR></TABLE>

You're going to hear the usual internet "back and forth" about the r/s ratio issue. My experience is......it is very minor and hence BS for most of us to get all pickey about it. It has more to do with the bottom end than your cyl head though. I have never had any issues that could be proven due to r/s ratio and I primarily use LSVtec engines in everything.

The Vtec cyl heads are out of the box able to flow more than a out of the box non-Vtec cyl head. It is able that is all.....you stilll need a bottom end that can survive higher than designed rpms. Oilpump, rods (or at least ARP rod bolts), balancing, good engine assembly, etc.

I get my cyl head work done though Joe Alaniz (Alaniz Technologies). Everything I have had done was of the Vtec cyl head families...no non-Vtec heads yet. You may want to at least call him and see if he has any experience on non-Vtec cyl heads.
http://www.alaniztechnologies.com/
I also suggest talking to a guy named Rocket (Robert) about some cyl head work. He may be able to set you up with some good LS work as well. http://m24x.zeroforum.com/zeromain

Anyways good luck it sounds like you are very determined.
I also suggest ditching the hack and using some real engine managment ...... hondata, uberdata, EMS, etc.

 

although I have never dynoed this combo I would think that the V-tech would make more power simply because of the cam then anything I could do to the LS head. The rod to stroke ratio I couldn't see being a problem considering there is race cars in sport FWD with this set up. Makes a whole lot of torque that's for sure.

 

Im essentially in the same boat, i have a built ls head right now, but am thinking of switching to a vtec head to explore different options. One question would be does anyone have a parts list for a good lsvtec setup (considering one already has the ls engine so the block and all are taken care of)? ive searched on h-t and just seem to find people arguing over the topic and never any hard info.

 

Nyquil, this may help some.................

~way to properly locate the cyl head on the block - you have two choices
1. ream the cyl head dowel holes out so the block side dowels fit correctly (will require cyl head machining)
2. use one of the conversion dowel kits that can be bought and does not require machining.....Full Race and Golden Eagle both sell these dowels, plus some other sources.

~plug the Vtec oil feed port on the cyl head - there is no port to match this one on the block, it will cause a nasty oil leak if you do not plug it.
1. a small allen set screw works well, drill the hole to proper size, tap threads, clean out debris, then insert set screw with some sealant.
(I strongly suggest using a steel set screw rather than an aluminum set screw, incase you want to remove the plug later on)

~a way to route oil to the Vtec system - there are alot of choices
1. The golden eagle Vtec adapter block, it uses filtered oil, it has the correct fitting to tie into the cyl head, uses 6an line to feed the head
2. Some other oil filter block to use as a feed source (AC autotechnia, Greddy, etc)
3. The common tee method from the oem oil pressure sender port. It has worked for years on lots of peoples' engines. You have to take care mounting and use good quality fittings to ensure that you do not strip the block, break a fitting from vibrations, etc.
Stan (Flamenco-T) has a very complete setup that will work, there are of couse many other sources as well.
**I suggest using 6an to feed the cyl head rather than smaller sizes, I have diagnosed some Vtec oil supply issues to running too small of an oil line......likewise some have no problems with smaller line**

~Obvisouly you will need to activate the Vtec system as well as use fuel and ign maps for a Vtec engine.
1. some OBD1 Vtec ecm in your case (94 Teg)
2. Some additions to your wiring harness - Vtec oil pressure sender and Vtec solenoid circuits. There are alot of Vtec addition diagrams out there to show this.

~New headgasket

~distributor - you have two choices
1. modify your LS distributor to fit the Vtec cyl head - cut off one leg
2. get a new or used Vtec specific distributor that bolts right up. (I suggest this option, why go to all the trouble to put a hacked up dissy on your new topend??)

~new headstuds or headbolts (the LS ones will not work), I used the ITR APR studs but that was awhile ago. I think there are specific LSVtec head studs available now.

~I'm leaving out the usual bottom end upgrades beacause they are alway debated and can be as limited and unlimited as your wallet allows.

At least that gets you on a good start....there are some other tidbits of info that play a part but this should cover the brunt of them


Modified by BROOD at 10:55 AM 7/9/2004

 

Thanks for the writeup that covered a majority of my q's. Only other concern would be water pump, timing belt? i heard its a good move to go with a combo from the same setup , i.e. b16 h2o pump and belt, or b18c h2o pump and belt. Is this true? Also since my block already has its internals worked over (ge sleeved, arias pistons, eagle rods) there would be no need to touch that area short of the machining for the vtec head, true?

 

Yes, thanks Brood for the info - The conversion sounds remotely easy, or at least a lot easier than it was a year and a half ago. . .

You answered most of my questions as well, however I have another question.

The reason for my wanting the ls/vtec combo is the higher flowing head, is there any real horsepower benefit to actually making the engine VTEC if you are going with a higher lift cam anyways?