CovertFI

http://www.dsmtalk.com/forums/showth...threadid=54785

"Well, after a week in my HOT arizona Garage, a few late nights getting 3 hours sleep, around 3 installs and uninstalls and reinstalls, many changes in configuration-location at what not, I have good solid test numbers.

Before Propane and with water-alky I would run 15psi (my cr is 8.5 up from stock 8.1 so my 15psi is edging 17psi acording to the final cr graph) I would easily touch 880c EGT and if running out to redline WOT in 3rd and going thru most of 4th I could top out at 920c which is kinda dangerous. Without 101 octane in an empty tankI could not keep knock down running my 15psi. It would normally hover around 10-17 knock count. Not something I like to see.

NOW, On with the show....

I started testing at low psi just to be safe. Around 10-12. No knock and EGT is LOW. I kept testing raising the PSI checking the pocketlogger, increasing some more.

After 2 hours (it is currently 95 degrees here) of CONTINUOUS-NON STOP WOT to Redline thru 2nd, 3rd, and 4th and tweaking the Propane settings and the S AFR I ended the night on what had to be blazing hot turbos.

What I ended up with:

Running 17psi (remember that is really closer to 19psi with my CR)

91 Octane gas

EGT topped out once at 840c after back to back 2-3 redline WOT

EGT after WOT 1-3rd to redline 800-820c depending on 1 minute to 5 minute rest off boost period

Knock counts by the end of the night on a HOTTER THAN HELL motor that was beat'n into the ground for 2 hours and turbos and IC's that had to be begging to STOP:

Oh, around 2-5 Sometimes Knock was 0-2.

AND I have bad motor mounts so some knock could be phantom, when I let go throttle fast the knock pops to 20+ and on the logger it is when Throttle position is 14%

AT no time can you ever smell propane and I run Apex-i Twin Chamber OPEN BOV.

I guess since it is Variable, I have it set to start in at around 2-3 psi and increase with boost from there, you NEVER feel anything but smooth power. No kick in like Nitrous, VTEC, NOTHING, just feels like running 101 in the tank. And at $4/gallon...I'll take the Propane.

After 2 hours of constant abuse On it more than off I weighed the tank. I used a little less than 1/2 pound. That's about 50 cents worth. In 101 that would have been easily 4 gallons @ $4/gallon...$16-no thanks!

And yes, the car is fast as hell now!


Any questions?"

Arturbo

Very interesting. I was just talking to someone about this and its something I would like to research more.

art

vtecvoodoo

only on my bbq

SlowB16

What does he use to do the injecting? MF2?

technine

Also, can you use a old nitrous system like a zex kit or something to activate at WOT? Is this how you did it? Sounds interesting and a solution for higher octane in california. We need it.

rondigs

At the track I work at, I've seen a guy running it in his turbo diesel. HUGE truck-runs low 15s and sometimes 14s. Looks like a train(smoke) going down the track.

twkdCD595

You could use a diesel propane injection kit and adapt it.

Propane injection is a very reliable and effective on them... my old man's turbo v8 superduty is running one. He can turn it on and run non-stop with it on if it wanted but the bad part is having the propane tank (never know when a accident could do if it ruptures the bottle and ignites). Least thats my only worry with it.

Makes great smooth power and runs cool on his parometer (think I spelled that wrong though sorry). He also runs a 100hp chip, intake, huge dp, and catback (like 4-5inch mandrel... retarded big). Crazy fast and torque is unreal in that thing.

Nice posting your results and testing in such detail for everyone... is a good idea!

EDIT

rondigs: yes they smoke like hell, aint that cool. anyways... the companies who sell **** for the turbo diesel fords superduties (new ones obviously) have trucks running propane and even nitrous injection on the race applications. They do crazy **** to em and they can run some pretty impressive times on the track too.

Bullydog, Gale Banks, and them all got some cool ****. Bullydog did a crew cab dually superduty with some crazy 19" budnick wheels and like every bolt on thing like intake, dp, exhaust, propane, chip, etc... ran like a mid 13 in the 1/4.


[Modified by twkdCD595, 3:59 PM 7/2/2002]

T4sol

Why not resort to water/alcohol injection instead? It'll take up less space than a big tank of propane

kanned

Good article on Propane in the latest C&D..

http://www.caranddriver.com/xp/Caran...nterceptor.xml

CovertFI

"octane value of 104, propane is ideal for high-compression engines."

that is why i want to here. i want to try out propane injection. does anyone know of a place that sells this ****.

b18bturbo

propane injection has been around for diesel motors for the longest time. There is local diesel 3500 Dodge Dually that pusehd 620hp and 1232ft lbs and maxed the dyno torque rating. Lookup propane injection they sell many ktis for the deielse guys that can be adapted to gas.

CovertFI

**** that is alot of torque. i am suprised it did not break the dyno

b18bturbo

its bright red dually red in dallas be careful ti flys... even with my f350dually it pulls like crzy when it wants too. It hits around 30psi of boost not too bad for a 16:1 compression diesel.

CovertFI

i bet you could activate this system by boost pressure. say when your map sensor hits a set voltage or even have it run off your vtec switch. this looks like a cheap octane booster.

here is some good infor on a homemade one:
http://www.ford-diesel.com/contents/...ropane%20Setup


[Modified by CovertFI, 10:41 AM 7/3/2002]

CRXRageD

Hmm propane, sounds cool, sounds scary. Not only can I cook with it, I can make my car faster with it. Very interesting.

Import Power Online

Hey everybody (simpsons)

This is Import Power Online (duh) we are the ones who developed this new Propane Injection System for all forced Induction Cars. To answer a few questions:

You can not use a Nitrous solenoid. It has been tried by a few tuners. The duty cycle is too short and it overheats. We are using a specialy machined to our specs LPG Fuel Lock shut off solenoid.

Propane can be up to 140 octane but at least 110

Propane comes out at -60F can you say cold intake temps

We started trying to convert a Diesel truck system. Did not work, that was a waste of $500. We have gone thru about 5 different setups and even more fine tuning of the setups. Many months many thousands of $$

We now have it complete. have datalogs to back it up. And are selling it for a tiny sum of $300.

http://www.importpoweronline.com

johnzm

And what happens when an intake valve stick open, and the propane ignites in the intake manifold?

Import Power Online

If you have valve float you have other issues and should look into fixing that before increasing boost high enuf to need propane

APEX i GSR

i did it last month on an 02 RSX & an 02 TL at work to see if car had possible bad fuel

johnzm

i don thtinak that is the point of me asking. what iuf someone overrevs? do they immediatly die? does the car explode? are ther any devices int he system that would stop an explosion from a valve sticking at high rpm?

ion_four

When you light your grill the tank doesn't explode. I think there would still be a valve between the tank and the flame, if it backed through the manifold. I don't think it would be much worse than a nitrous backfire, though I could be wrong.

PreIudeSI

out here in az there was a big scam that went down a few years ago. some mayor or senator or something thought it would be a good idea to clean up the environment by allowing people to buy new SUVs (and other cars i guess) and have them installed with propane for a huge discount on your brand new car. The thing was that the old gasoline tanks were not removed so people could still fill up with regular gas. it cost the city millions of dollars but hey, free propane injection. I didn't take advantage of this offer at the time. just thought i'd share

FMXer

Would'nt it be against the law to drive around with a propane tank sitting in your trunk turned on??
I was told that the law was (mabey its just CA) that when you transported propane tanks they had to have these little goofy plastic screw caps in them.

Import Power Online

Yes, you are correct. But just like Nitrous is also ilegal to have in the ar wtih the line connected to it even if the valve is closed.

BROOD

"Propane injection good for high compression engines"......very ideal for turbo diesel engines usually running 20.0:1 cr or more with alot of low speed boost pressures. That is why this is so common with turbo diesels. I see it all of the time and yes it does work on dieseld very well.

Would I use it on a gasoline application?.......I donno. The information that Import Power Online provided is interesting though.


[Modified by SLPR, 6:00 AM 7/25/2002]