Mfoehrkolb

buttoning up my h22 build shortly, and still have to decide on a turbo for my set up. i also recently welded up a new exhaust for my car and its 2.5" piping with a magnaflow "high flow" cat.

Turbo Question: Did a bunch of research but quite of bit outdated information out there and jeff evans only has one h22 in the 400-500 range running a gt35. So that isn't helping me out as of what are my other options. I was looking at a gt3076 but some say its perfect, some say its no good etc etc. I would like some HT turbo guru's to aid me in a decision. I would like to keep it to garret and or precision for brands. I am looking to make 400-500 is the goal, don't really care as long as it is within that range... Let the car make what it makes. I have messaged a few people about their gt3076 set ups but no responses back :/

JE site of the gt35 which has nice power lines:
http://www.evans-tuning.com/dynos/20...t-415whp280tq/

Exhaust Question: 2.5" piping, magnaflow high flow cat... This specific vehicle is my daily (if you can say that) and doesn't require the cat but i prefer it... Not too sure on how much the piping size and or the cat will be hurting my possible performance results... Please give me opinions on the sizing and if the sizing is fine, if i should run a cat or leave it with the 2.5" piping.

Hidenplanvew

You should be running 3" exhaust, is 2.5 possible sure but the H22 moves alot of air. Also the turbo should be a t4 turbine side as once again the H22 will move alot of air and could cause a choke point. You can run a cat as most cats now flow very well and wount be much of anything as a restriction. Also its just better for the enviroment, and isnt going to get you into trouble with the federial goverment is someone should happen to look.

Mfoehrkolb

--- Cat is on just for preference and any sound aid it may be helping with. My car is exempt, so that kind of stuff isn't mandatory for me anyways. The manifold i purchased is sadly a t3 flange, but i didn't think t4 was necessary since i am not going for some crazy numbers and its as of now.. just for spirited street driving/fun.

I went with a 2.5" to also help with noise... This 00 civic used to be my track car, and still has my cage in it, with no interior etc... So it is quite loud from the inside. Can't get my rear quarter panel plastics passed my cage, so until then no interior.

As i am getting older, i can't stand the sound of exhaust lol. So that i try to keep it as low key as possible without hindering anything too much. I guess i can always change it after i get it tuned if i don't hit the numbers i want/as easily as i wanted the numbers to be hit and then get it retuned.

I really don't have any clue what size turbo to run though, that will pair up with good results. I can look at flow charts all day, but first hand experience is what i seek.

Balor_Gr

For H22 and your goal i would buy the T3 .70 a/r S256
http://www.extremepsi.com/store/prod...at=1591&page=1

Compressor Wheel Inducer - 56mm
Compressor Wheel Exducer - 80mm
Compressor Wheel Trim - 49
Turbine Wheel Inducer - 74mm
Turbine Wheel Exducer - 64mm

Here is the comparisson S256 VS 3076 https://honda-tech.com/forums/forced-induction-16/turbo-shootout-results-bw-s256-vs-gt3076r-2220363/

And the dyno:

You loose 300 rpm compared to the 3076 but its ~550 usd cheaper...
And its rebuildable.Plus im from europe and im familiar with the SUPERB german heavy industry quality...
Imo it fits perfectly to the H22.

Mfoehrkolb

--- With these size turbo's, and the size of the h22... Do you think it would be very street-able? Or would it just be spinning because of the early torque curve that it has. Granted it is a very nice torque curve and holds almost all the way through the rpm range in that graph. Not very familiar with BW brand, but i have never heard anything bad about them in the past.

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

BW started off in Indianapolis Indiana, in 1918, and merged with 2 turbo companies (Schwitzer) and 3K (Kuhnle, Kopp, & Kausch). Current headquarters is in Aurburn Hills MI, but is still a German company with manufacturing in both locations, funny enough. OEM and some performance in Germany, larger performance and diesel in the U.S.

As for the comparison with these two, I remember that test vividly, and the S256 is a nice turbocharger a bit more suited for the 2.2 litre in the higher HP range because of the larger turbine wheel used in comparison with the 60mm used in the GT3076R. There are about 4 others in both Garrett , turbonetics that can be about the same price. I remember when I did one of these stock block H22 using a smaller GT3257B for full pressure under 20psi by about 3400rpms, and costs about the same as the Extremepsi discounted S256. Both are "streetable" in either situation. But the question is what's this ultimately going to be used for? do you plan on upgrading internals so that more boost pressure can be used in the event the turbo chosen would be in a better efficiency range? What fuel do you plan to use to make this power? These are what helps answer the "streetability" question that you have so much..

More info on your end, please..

Mfoehrkolb

--- Sorry for the lack of information, i didn't feel that was important :/ The car used to be my track car and made 520 years ago, then sold the motor to my brother in law who is now making 587whp on 93oct (this is an h22). Bought an h22a long block and now driving my... once was track car, roll cage and all with a stock h22a in it :D

I bought another spare h22a4 from a 00 automatic that i built/building and is now waiting for next spring to be put in.

Block:
DA-300-018 Sleeves
Eagle Rods
CP Pistons
ARP Hardware

Head:
Light port job
stock cams
stock valvetrain (as of now)

Bolt Ons:
P2T4 Trans w/ quaife LSD
Hasport Mounts
70mm BDL TB
Port matched Golden Eagle Intake
1000cc RCs
T3 Phamspeed Tubular Manifold (was custom mad for previous owner)
2.5" exhaust w/ highflow cat
s300
blah blah blah etc etc etc


(PLEASE DO NOT QUOTE THE ABOVE INFORMATION IN REPLIES)


Essentially the car is going to be pretty built for my daily driver... Except the super expensive MID sleeves that i had in my old motor. Darton advised me for any type of mild HP build the 300-018 will suffice for what i want. The car will be driven and tuned on 93oct, just going to be used for spirited driving, work related driving, etc... As for "streetable" i mean... that is going to be able to hook up and not just burn my expensive tires onto the pavement because of some ridiculous torque curve/undersized turbo that spools too early and you're always out of vacuum driving around town normally. I basically am building this motor right, the first time... Let the turbo make the power without pushing timing too much etc... That why my goal is 400-500 because i don't really care what it does... Just want it to be decently quick, fun to drive, but still trackable when i decide to run the snot out of it. Keep in mind i am used to driving a fast car, and i believe i am seeking out something that is going to "pull" like my old car did/my brother in laws car now does. Don't want it to make a lot of noise from the WG and exhaust but have it feel like its falling flat on it's face lol. The only way i can describe it is, i don't want it to feel like a stock turbo'd ko3 on a volkswagen 1.8t where it pulls from 3-5k and then it just dies. I rarely go out to local car meets ( i don't like to associate myself with car people/honda people... they tend to be young, ignorant, and thieves in my location) but i would like to be able to have fun when we all go out for a night cruise.

Again please don't quote the above information about my car, i would like to edit it once it's no longer needed. Any more questions feel free to ask :D PS. sorry for that rant!!!!

Hidenplanvew

Well missing a cat is a federal crim not state. So yes you can still be busted, but chances are low. I like that you know it kills some sound, and you shouldnt lose any noticable power running one. You can use a T3 to T4 flange adapter, and I t4 is the size of the turbine housing (to put it simple). I have a 6262 with a t4 .65a/r turbine housing that I was going to use on my H22.

If you have a closed deck H22 and run mahle pistons, and eagle rods. I have seen them hold 400 to 500 daily (way to much power and will spin).

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

That T4 is a pretty big sized volute to a point where even the turbine wheel you obviously won't outflow it, but you'll lose a TON of usable powerband for a smaller engine for a street use like that. If the point of this 400-500 whp is to be streetable, sure you won't "break tires loose" early, but a smaller turbocharger will be MUCH more efficient for a better powerband than that HUGE volute that you're using. The logic that you're using is typical "Big turbo , more lag = better traction" logic, which typically doesn't do what people think, but folks have to figure it out I guess.

Let's just say my aunt's 1992 Dodge Turbo Spirit will out run you in the first 1500 yards with the turbocharger you're choosing based upon this logic. But don't worry. you're not the first, and you certainly won't be the last to think this way.

Staying smaller than 60lbs/min is really the best way to go overall for goals and use you intend.. truly. You're thinking way too large here. Its like killing a fly with a Jackhammer when a simple fly-swatter will do the trick.

Mfoehrkolb

--- I was talking to my local shop today about sizing, and the only thing bad about the s256 he had to say is that it's not BB and compared to the gt3076 you will lose a bit more rpm on the turbine itself in between shifts. He did say though, that they are basically indestructible turbos.

--- 6262 IMO would just be straight overkill. I am not trying to make the most power i can possibly make from the motor. Just something with a decent amount that i should enjoy sporting it around town.


--- A 6262 is simply too big for what i want... I don't want something with a crazy fast torque curve that will break lose every time i punch it. I also don't want to sit there until 7k rpm until the thing hits boost lol.

Mfoehrkolb

Someone on this forum posted this up of their h22 with a 3076 .82 hotside... Look how the power drops off soooo much on his graph. That's not good, but they didn't list anything about the set up besides for it being a stock block.

Balor_Gr

Thats a lot of power my friend.For 480+ whp im the 3076 is getting small.
Since i like firstly to check if the job can be done for less.Thats what I would consider buying too:
S256 3" Inlet (7") Non Extended Tip T-3 .70 A/R Open 3" V-Band Outlet For 800$

http://www.theboostlab.com/products/bullseye-power.html

http://cfmperformance.net/products/B...ended-Tip.html

Also below is the borg warner 7670 turbo.The good thing with this is it can be found for 630 usd.Spend the extra 600-800 usd for a divided setup and you will have an extremely good turbo setup.The full-race test showed 300-400rpm faster spool from the GTX3071(!?) on an evo.





http://www.himni-racing.com/turbocha...qde0paio85ce84

http://www.full-race.com/store/turbo...670-turbo.html

The list of turbos that would work for you is big!
Search!

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

Response is in blue

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

That's because they're using a hotside larger than what's needed for the powerband and volute using. Its a BIG risk using a stock H22 block for that power level, so I'm sure timing was reduced heavily.

2000CTRSi

Have a client with a sleeved h running an sc61. Its very fun to drive. Make 14 psi by 3800 lol. At around 24 psi on e85 made it into the the 600s without a sweat

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

That's not bad for 61lbs/min, but it so depends upon the tubing wheel used as well. Some of those had the smaller one that created that responsiveness, but really hurt top end past 420whp or so.

2000CTRSi

I was surprised as well. :-)

Love that feelin

Hidenplanvew

I love the 6262, It wasent so much to stay out of boot or anything. The car was going to be mostly strip car but still able to drive on the streets when I wanted something fast. Plus I like the sling shot feeling . Plus I bought it cause I got a really good deal on one with like 1000 miles, so I couldnt say no.. It was from someone I trust alot so I had no problem buying it used. It was also one of the older ones that last..

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

These 2 reasons are why the 6262 works for you, but not necessarily for the OP. But I understand what you mean.

Hidenplanvew

But can you have down low while still having uptop power?