fastrcars

I was thinking of how much the H22A engine stands up for the boost..

If setting it up with for ex CP pistons and Eagle rods..i guess the sleeves is the once cracking/brakes first..?

How much power/hp/boost is possible to force of the engine without redoing it with thicker sleeves? (it depends on alot of things i know..but between ur fingers?)

And blockguard..is it a cheap way to add another 0,5 of boost or is it worthless?

/Nooby

4genaccordfreak

7psi MAX with some good tuning.. to reduce any chance of detonation.. h22a sleeves are it's only downfall for any kind of forced induction.. once sleeved.. you are just laughing.. all thats left for a pretty serious setup is pistons and rods.. a nice big turbo.. and ur pushing serious power... just dont take the chance of ruining a good motor.. and save up for the best quality parts that you can

SL0WEGG

sleeves arent the weaklink. the ringlands are the weak link. but some have had luck. well thats because of a good tune. from what i hear h22's are really tricky when it comes to tuning them

fastrcars

What do you meen by "ringland"? (Sorry..stupid europeen

I also heard there isnt possible to add Forged internals on stock bottom end as well , anyone can confirme that? (something to do with there is nicasil sleeves??)

Well if u KNOW pls tell me

Thanks guys 4 u answers

flip1199

to my knowledge no one has cracked a h22 sleeve with a stock block and boost. those that blow tend to have broken ringlands. ringlands is the area on the side of the pistons where the rings are located(for lack of a better explination). as for stock block with forged internals, tmk only mahle makes pistons for use with stock sleeves but alot of people dont seem to happy with their customer service/fitment.

4genaccordfreak

^^ that is true..... ringlands blowing out are usually due to excessive boost.. and/or a totally lean mixture.. causing the piston-ring lands to crack... altho H22a sleeves are "fiber-reinforced" metal sleeves.. and known to "pit" under high pressure.. or excessive heat.. since they are much softer then typical iron sleeves.. reason for that is because the fiber-material layer is only 0.5mm from the actual bore of the sleeve... making it very brittle under larger boost/pressure numbers..... they do not CRACK persay.. although when a motor blows.. its usually a combination of both the sleeves failing.. and ring-lands cracking.. i should have made things more specific in my first post


Modified by 4genaccordfreak at 1:06 PM 10/23/2005

The Weather Man

Get some eagle/crower rods along with the gold series pistons and you'll be set. Oh and get a great tuner.

I'm going to be running 10-12 psi on that setup in the spring. The cylinders are weak what so ever in the h22. Just the ringlands like mentioned - so whats the corrective action? Get the Mahle Gold Series pistons. They've had problems years ago when they were first debuted, but they're good to go now. Or you can wait until I have my setup completed and go from there.

Chip

Did anyone even read his post? He wants to put CP pistons and eagle rods in his motor with stock sleeves, which is definitely not going to happen. You need to resleeve the motor to be able to use forged pistons in it.

m R g S r

Alright....this is by far the worst informative thread I have ever read. All the info in here sucks, except for Chip's and flip's

The Weather Man

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Chip &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Did anyone even read his post? He wants to put CP pistons and eagle rods in his motor with stock sleeves, which is definitely not going to happen. You need to resleeve the motor to be able to use forged pistons in it.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Well actually there was someone who ran forged pistons(not mahle) in an h22 for a while. I forget his name - but he has a long thread about it - updates and everything. I think its in the prelude essential faqs section.

The Weather Man

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=416069

There ya go - but he used wiseco pistons. Hope THAT was helpful

SOHC_MShue

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 4genaccordfreak &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">7psi MAX with some good tuning.. to reduce any chance of detonation.. h22a sleeves are it's only downfall for any kind of forced induction.. once sleeved.. you are just laughing.. all thats left for a pretty serious setup is pistons and rods.. a nice big turbo.. and ur pushing serious power... just dont take the chance of ruining a good motor.. and save up for the best quality parts that you can</TD></TR></TABLE>
Do you even know what the hell you are talking about? https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1171997
How is this one making so much power if it can only run "7psi MAX"???

JDMs1eeper

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SOHC_MShue &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Do you even know what the hell you are talking about? https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1171997
How is this one making so much power if it can only run "7psi MAX"???</TD></TR></TABLE>

basicaly what he is saying matt is... H seires doesnt have sleeves. they have more/or less a ciramic coating. The more load on the engine the more the piston rings expand outwards into the seated cylinderwalls. With high boost levels you run a "MAJOR" risk of decoasting teh cylinder walls. THen after that has happen thermal breakdown will own your *** because your cylinders will now be, stait up allumium block matieral.

Please correct me if im wrong but. H series should be sleeved for longgevity, not for the fact that it cant handle it.

JDMs1eeper

btw, not agreeing that 7psi is the max. Just saying the more PSI you run the more HP you are gonna make to equal higher cylinder pressures and more load.

Its kinda like this... You have knee pads on. 7psi is like slidin around a hard wood floor with your buddys holdin a rope pullin you around. the more those pressures go up or load increases the more damage taht will be done. So instead of sliding around for days having fun with out damageing the pads beyond use. Go and do the same thing on a paved road being a truck. you'll have fun for about 50 feet or maybe 200 yards. but your gonna get Fucked up real soon.

Matt, come shoot me in my leg

The Weather Man

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JDM S1eeper &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">


Please correct me if im wrong but. H series should be sleeved for longgevity, not for the fact that it cant handle it.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yeah I agree they should be sleeved. But i'm not doing it. Maybe in the future. No one has really done a test to see how much psi they can actually handle - w rods and pistons. I'm going for 10-12psi - then maybe 15psi. Might stop there if nothing happens yet.

jDMJeRk

The replys in this thread are going to vary from all different responses. The truth is how much your willing to push. *psi doesnt equal detenation. I didnt read this whole thread but Im sure that has been said already.

Now from my friends experience, Ive seen a stock h22 boost ~8psi on stock internals with a sc61 60 trim, and my other buddy has hit 2.12 bar on his (stock h22, sc61 63 trim). Both cars are still running perfectly fine as well. (well we think the guy boosting 2.12 bar is running good still lol; he daily drives it at 18-21psi).

Put your car to the test lol. Experiment, blow it up, and rebuild it the right way!

Good Luck!

-n!ck

The Weather Man

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jDMJeRk &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The replys in this thread are going to vary from all different responses. The truth is how much your willing to push. *psi doesnt equal detenation. I didnt read this whole thread but Im sure that has been said already.

Now from my friends experience, Ive seen a stock h22 boost ~8psi on stock internals with a sc61 60 trim, and my other buddy has hit 2.12 bar on his (stock h22, sc61 63 trim). Both cars are still running perfectly fine as well. (well we think the guy boosting 2.12 bar is running good still lol; he daily drives it at 18-21psi).

Put your car to the test lol. Experiment, blow it up, and rebuild it the right way!

Good Luck!

-n!ck</TD></TR></TABLE>

In other words - its all about the tuning.

4genaccordfreak

^^ exactly!!! i was NOT stating in my posts that you are only ALLOWED to run 7PSI max.. although im stating that stock sleeves DO NOT last very long after that 7-8psi sweet spot.. (YES SOME MOTORS ARE DIFFERENT) some last longer.. some don't.. fact of the matter is.. I DO know what im talking about.. just because someone has dyno'd their h22a at 400+ WHP.. on stock sleeves.. doesnt mean that their motor is not going to end up with catastrophic failure within another week.. i was simply telling him that even with rods and pistons.. the stock sleeves are too THIN to hold up to HIGHER pressures for longer periods of time.. they are just too skinny with that 87mm bore.. just saying some alot safer pressure numbers so he doesn't go out and blow his motor on the first day until he gets somemore insight on how to properly build for higher pressure!

4genaccordfreak

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by m R g S r &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Alright....this is by far the worst informative thread I have ever read. All the info in here sucks, except for Chip's and flip's</TD></TR></TABLE>

^^ yet we don't see you giving any PROPER information in here do we... **** yourself

4genaccordfreak

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SOHC_MShue &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Do you even know what the hell you are talking about? https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1171997
How is this one making so much power if it can only run "7psi MAX"???</TD></TR></TABLE>

^^ and yes i know quite well what im talking about since i've been building motors, swapping.. custom fabrication and helping make some serious turbo kits for years now.. so dont try and tell me i don't know what i'm talking about

SOHC_MShue

Maybe next time you should talk about power levels instead of putting it in terms of the amount of boost. I doubt 7psi on a t25 is gonna do much damage to the cylinders.

4genaccordfreak

^^ are you on glue??? read his original FIRST post.. he asked.. how much power/boost you can run with just rods and pistons on a stock h22a block and stock sleeves.. i gave him a genuine educated answer for SAFE operation of his motor with decent gains of 70+ whp at 7psi (since rule of thumb is 10-12WHP/1psi of boost... depending on setup).. and there is no way in hell anyone would be stupid enough to boost an h22a with a t25.. WTF!! BAHAHA

SOHC_MShue

I was just trying to prove a point by talking about the T25. Of coarse you would be stupid to use it on a h22, but 7psi is always gonna make different amounts of power with different turbos. You are making it sound like anything over 7psi is horribly unsafe when i'm sure there are many members on here running over 7psi with a larger turbo on a stock h22 without aftermarket rods, pistons, or sleeves. If anything over 7psi was going to whipe out your cylinder walls then i'm sure that h22 i posted wouldn't have lasted a couple of days on 18psi making over 400whp.

JDMs1eeper

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 4genaccordfreak &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> h22a with a t25.. </TD></TR></TABLE>

exactly... a T25 is WAY undersized and would be as efficent as a hair dryer + hair spray + lighter.




Modified by JDM S1eeper at 6:53 PM 10/24/2005

JDMs1eeper

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SOHC_MShue &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I was just trying to prove a point by talking about the T25. Of coarse you would be stupid to use it on a h22, but 7psi is always gonna make different amounts of power with different turbos. You are making it sound like anything over 7psi is horribly unsafe when i'm sure there are many members on here running over 7psi with a larger turbo on a stock h22 without aftermarket rods, pistons, or sleeves. If anything over 7psi was going to whipe out your cylinder walls then i'm sure that h22 i posted wouldn't have lasted a couple of days on 18psi making over 400whp. </TD></TR></TABLE>

well if you properly size your turbo than 7psi should be strait up to the point. The thing is, yall are getting side tracked.

Lets drop this 7psi rool of thumb. Basicaly a "STOCK" h22 shoudlnt see much boost at all. The internals will handle a lot of power but the cylinderwalls wont. The more load you add, the more your wiping that protective layer that keeps u from haveing piston to alluminum contact. Point being, H series DONT HAVE SLEEVES, period. they are a CLOSED DECK and use a THIN coating that seperates cumbustion/pistons/rings from bare block.

During combustion the rings are forced outwards creating a seal to contain the thermal energy of fuel being used. The higher the cylinder pressuers and higher the load, the more the rings are pushed outwards in hopes of containing this energy forcing the piston to move. These motors wernt designed with FI in mind so when they built them, the disign was GREAT for a NA sporty car. But when your adding 7+psi of boost your increaseing cylinder pressures, creating more heat and dumping in gobbs more fuel. This added stress is more than enough to put that coating at risk. But as ive said, it could be 2psi or 30psi it doesnt change taht the owner MUST KNOW THIS RISK. And thats what should be stated also. You can run a DD for years on a properly sized turbo on 7psi range. You can ALSO run 15-20psi on that same motor just fine (or so it seems) but at the cost of washing or erasing your cylinder protection from the added load & Horse power.


Question was, What is safe to run? Id say 5-8psi if its a DD, anything else and youve been warned about what your engine will be going threw.

Sometimes the "Hit the crack pipe one more time while its fun, worry about tomorrow when it gets here" shouldn't ever be used. Eat carrots and Grow mullets... lets all go to a stripper bar