I have a question sorta related to this conversation.
AMS built an SRT-4 with a custom turbo that was basically a 4088R with a T3 exh. housing. It had a .82 A/R hot side. They claim it made 800 HP, with a 7200 rpm rev limit. How is that possible? Was it the bigger 2.4L motor? Longer stroke?
They were using an AEM ems. They have an in-house dynojet, so it wasn't just skewed because of running on a dynapak.

Why didn't they need a bigger exh. housing to make numbers like that?

 

That was w/o nitrous?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Axle &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Do you mention only the 'big power' cars because horsepower loss is measured on a ratio scale (percent) and 1% of 800hp is a lot more significant than 1% of 175hp?

I would think the drivetrain loss would not be as significant at higher speeds on slicks (especially on low-displacement high-rev big turbo setups) because as I'm sure you know... softwall tires grow quite a bit with speed.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I mention "big power" cars because with big power you have to run sticky tires, you have to let the air pressure down, and you have to use extra straps to hold the car down, all in order to get traction on the dyno. None of which you need to do on a 300hp car.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tony1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">That was w/o nitrous?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yeah, no n2o. That's part of why I'm curious. I think the actual HP numbers given were 790+ HP, at 6700 rpm to redline.

 

it wasn't a 4088r it was one of their "37r" kits....which I believe is more like a ball bearing pt67

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by narfdanarf &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">it wasn't a 4088r it was one of their "37r" kits....</TD></TR></TABLE>

You're right. Here's the kit in question, note the line after the first paragraph.

"This same kit with an AMS37R made 792 whp and 630 Ft/lbs of torque on only 35 PSI!!!"

http://www.amsperformance.com/...=1021

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by narfdanarf &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">it wasn't a 4088r it was one of their "37r" kits....which I believe is more like a ball bearing pt67</TD></TR></TABLE>

Umm, yeah, that's why I said it wasn't a 4088R. I quoted one of the guys from AMS who said, "It's basically a custom 40R".
Okay, so it's more like a PT67. Is it possible to make that kind of power with such a small exhaust housing?

Here's a link to some of the dyno session on that car.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tr3MseRfK-g

 

on a 4088r Ive made 640hp on 2 different civics at 30-32lbs and Ive also seen 2 different vr6 cars do 640-660whp @ about 35-36lbs but the vr6s had 600ftlbs torque the hondas had 400-430. All numbers are dynojet, all cars went 146-148 and weigh 2500-2800.

Has anybody dynoed some thing other than 42r on a FR divided topmount?
what turbo and what power?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by NativeSon &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Here's a link to some of the dyno session on that car.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tr3MseRfK-g</TD></TR></TABLE>
700++ on 17s
that does not sound like 700+

 

My 40r was with a divided top mount, as was Joe Simpsons.

That neon sure as hell didn't look or sound like 800whp!

 

if that was 800hp, it is a true sleeper. sounded like half that, looked like it too, especially on those wheels.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tony1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">That neon sure as hell didn't look or sound like 800whp!</TD></TR></TABLE>

Well, that's also what I was thinking, but can you skew the correction factor that much? If the car was putting out 650Hp, could you skew the correction factor by 150 Hp?

And if that's true, then what about their "1000 Hp on gas" Evo? Is it really more of an 850 Hp Evo? (GT42R)

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by NativeSon &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Well, that's also what I was thinking, but can you skew the correction factor that much? If the car was putting out 650Hp, could you skew the correction factor by 150 Hp?

And if that's true, then what about their "1000 Hp on gas" Evo? Is it really more of an 850 Hp Evo? (GT42R)</TD></TR></TABLE>

I don't know what's up with that Neon. Maybe the mic on the video camera is turned way down... that car sounds nothing like any 700+hp 4cyl I've ever heard. It's just too quiet. Something is up with that video anyway because it's titled as "almost 800hp" yet it's just barely over 700.

The AMS drag car is loud like every other 1000hp 4cyl so I don't know why you bring that up.

 

It seems to me that be body of that neon would have moved more than it did for the acclaimed power level. That is an in ground dynojet and those are harder to retain traction on than one thats on a lift. I know when we strap down a car on the dynojet we put the tires on the back side of the roller so it pulls downward and strap the **** out of it downward as well. I have seen people dyno FWD on the front side of the roller and as the car pulls up it loses traction.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Axle &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I don't know what's up with that Neon. Maybe the mic on the video camera is turned way down... that car sounds nothing like any 700+hp 4cyl I've ever heard. It's just too quiet. Something is up with that video anyway because it's titled as "almost 800hp" yet it's just barely over 700.
The AMS drag car is loud like every other 1000hp 4cyl so I don't know why you bring that up.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Okay then let me dumb it down for ya.
1. They're claiming 792 HP on the Neon. They don't show the dyno pull that made that power in the video. It was done on another night.
2. People seem to think that 792 # is inflated by around 150 HP. (compared to similar sized turbos/boost on other vehicles)
I'm asking if you think they adjust the correction factor on their dyno that much for all of their cars. (That would include the street Evo) Get it? (And, btw I wasn't talking about their drag car.) I'm just looking for some realistic answers. I don't personally give a crap if they want to punch up their numbers for the sake of self promotion. I really don't. I'm only interested in wading through the info that's out there.

Don't even think I'm trying to start anything with AMS. I have no interest in them.
(I hate when people try and twist **** around for the sake of arguing)

What I'm really interested in knowing, is can you really make that much HP through a .82 A/R T3 exhaust housing. (Without n2o)

I actually read a little bit more about that car, and the owner says the exhaust side is actually a .63 A/R!

So, is it possible that the big bore/long stroke motor can make that kind of power without the same amount of exhaust flow as a high rpm Honda motor? Like a B18?

Or, does this motor have the same kind of exhaust flow and velocity, to spin a big turbo at lower rpms as a Honda motor at much higher rpms?



Modified by NativeSon at 9:20 PM 6/5/2007

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by GodFather of Boost &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">on a 4088r Ive made 640hp on 2 different civics at 30-32lbs and Ive also seen 2 different vr6 cars do 640-660whp @ about 35-36lbs but the vr6s had 600ftlbs torque the hondas had 400-430. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Do you recall how big the exhaust housings were on those turbos? And where the power bands were at? Sorry for all the questions.

 

back to the 4094 , anyone used the 1.19 with a big set of cams? id like to know what kind of numbers your lookin at with that ,of course depending on exactly what cams and so forth. Im still really thinking about one of these

 

.81 on the hondas peak torque by 6500

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by GodFather of Boost &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">.81 on the hondas peak torque by 6500</TD></TR></TABLE>

What are you using for fuel systems on the hondas?

 

tony1 do you think buddyclub 4 cams will work well with this turbo ??

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Cyber ITR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">tony1 do you think buddyclub 4 cams will work well with this turbo ??</TD></TR></TABLE>

what are the specs on those?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by WHTZ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

What are you using for fuel systems on the hondas?</TD></TR></TABLE>
bosch pump -8 lines 1000cc injectors

 

what was base fuel pressure?

 

50psi

 

So you never tried anything bigger than the .95 housing on the 4094? This was with a FR divided topmount correct? Don't by any chance have any dynocharts do you?