nick91civicsi

Im working on a turbo kit for my b18c5 teg and so far i have a complete turbonetics kit (with the exception of the actual turbo itself), and 255lph fuel pump. Im considering replacing the turbonetics turbo with a garrett gt30r but im unsure of which turbine housing to go with. I want fast spool for autocross but not so much that i have no top end. I would like to be able to hit 12's in the quarter. I was also wondering what the advantage would be of getting the t3 w/ v-band???? iv done alot of research and have been looking for an answer about this vband but found nothing. This seems like a very reliable and informative forum so if anyone has any additional help they can give with this turbo setup i would appreciate it.

nick91civicsi

anyone?

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nick91civicsi &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">anyone?</TD></TR></TABLE>

This is going to depend upon whether or not you want to keep that 5bolt ford style exhaust housing for the downpipe that you plan to use. Characteristics changing are not simply going to be from simply a housing change. not in the way that you think that it would. Auto Xing a turbo car with that size turbo is not going to be at all effective, and is almost pointless for something that big. You may want to go a bit smaller or with a different powerband.

Mainly the advantage of V-band is ease of installation and uninstallation of your particular downpipe.

Find out what your true focus is and the rest will follow. Let me know if you need some assistance in choosing your application.

nick91civicsi

hmm well i actually had a very reputable tuner here in houston recommend the gt30r. I thought about going with a 2871r but id like to have some room for future growth once i forge all my internals and lower comp. Truth is , i know its hard to get the best of both worlds but i really want to be able to smoke all these v8 domestics runnin around and if i can get some extra power for autocross as well that would be perfect. Even going with the gt30r with a .64 or .84 iv heard of people hitting full boost at 3.5k

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

What kind of "growth" are you planning to do. I'm not saying the GT30R is not a good application, but what are the goals of the car? Quick spool by a certain rpm is only a begining step in understanding what you're looking for.. Please elaborate more.. Search deep. This way, you won't regret the decision. It's kinda like getting a Tattoo. Sure once its done you can remove it, but it won't be the same again. So think long, and choose wisely.

nick91civicsi

well you make a very good point and if i really think about it, what really matters is improving my power in the low end more than high end. I really want some throttle response at lower rpms to pull me out of turns. Is it possible to have this while still hitting 12's in the quarter? Also, when i say growth i mean forging all the internals so that i can turn up the boost which means more power throughout the power band. Correct me if im wrong, but i figure with more power, even if the setup is geared towards low end the high end will also improve....
thanks for your help

SEFIxCivic

in that case you probably want a gt28rs. it is the best response you can get while being able to maintain top end. i tuned one recently and on pump gas he was able to trap 114-115 mph.

oscarmayer

your going to need something with a small exhaust sized wheel, so it spools fast.
the gt30R will not do that for you and you will not gain much benefits.

gt28 with the smallest wheel they offer might be a better option, or even supercharging with a "roots" Sc would work well for auto-x

Muckman

iTrader: (2)

Dont forget theres a number of different "GT30R" variations. Theres also a 3071 with a smaller compressor than a 3076. And then there are different trims too. Lots of choices. But it sounds like the GT2871 or 2860 is what you need to accomplish your goals.

nick91civicsi

ok I've narrowed it down to two choices, the

GT2871R

-turbine
-wheel 53.85mm w/76 trim
-housing .64 ar or .86 ar

-compressor
-wheel 71mm w/56 trim
-housing .60 ar

or

GT3071R

-turbine
-wheel 60mm w/84trim
-housing .63 ar or .82 ar

-compressor
-wheel 71mm w/56 trim
-housing .50ar

Looking at these stats i have a very general and vague idea of the performance i would get from the two but i would really like to hear more specifically what type of performance i could expect from these two turbos.
ie:
what rpm would i feel solid throttle reponse without much lag?
what rpm could i expect to start to feel boost?
what rpm would be full boost?
i realize these are not going to be exact numbers because of tuning but i just need some more info to make a final decision and decide if its worth sacrificing a little throttle response for some high end to help me in the quarter and visa versa.

TS4L

I'd suggest the .64 a/r 2871, it will have quick spool and still be able to make plenty of top end power. Depending on the weight of your car it should be able to make the power to get you into the 12's even high 11's at 18-20psi. And it will also spool quick enough to make for a fun auto-X car. I think after all the research I have done this is one of the most amazing turbo's. The 3071 with the smaller a/r and proper manifold actually out spools the larger 2871 with more top end power. I think its also a great turbo in some applications but as someone with a GT30R I can say even on my 2.0L its not the best Auto-X setup becuase of its lag, and then when it hits boost its hard to control all the power. Just my 2 cents.

nick91civicsi

thank you, that was exactly the type of answer i was looking for, but id still like to hear some other opinions

Muckman

iTrader: (2)

Oh god if your even considering a .64 AR 2871 then a GT30xx anything is way too large for you. I think a small AR on a small turbo like the 2871 is going to have no top end. I say go with a larger AR like .86 if you want to stick with the GT28's or .63 if you want a 3071. Be sure to consider the 2860 (aka GT28RS) too. Talk to Tony the Tiger if you want info on GT2860 and 2871 as he's had both on his GSR.


*edit: A .63AR GT3071 will not outspool a GT2871 .86. The GT30 turbine is much bigger

0xenocron

Does anyone have compressor maps for these turbos they could post up? That might be helpful...

nick91civicsi

ah thats what i was afraid of, conflicting opinions! hehe well ill try to find some compressor maps...

nick91civicsi

hope these help...

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

the GT2871R .86 I believe is the better of the two 28R series turbos if you plan to stay that way. The GT3071 (VERY similar to the HKS 2835) is a bit more of an upper band item, and not as much of a torque creator than the 56 trim GT2871R for the C5 motor. Considering that your chamber volume is 42.7mm, its been a better winner from my experience and use of the turbo on c5 Honda B-series

TS4L

My buddy is making 370hp with the .64 a/r 2871 and it makes really good power all the way to redline.

The 3071 with proper setup will out spool the larger 2871, I have seen many dyno charts showing this and seen people make 370hp at only 12-13psi with it. Here is a dyno chart of a 3071 at 13 psi.

Here is a dyno chart for the larger 2871 its running more boost but as you can see the spool up is about the same. I know the GT30 wheels are bigger I run one on my car, but due to better match between compressor and turbine wheels the spool is better. I'm saying the smaller a/r 3071 compared to the larger a/r 2871. Just going off what I have seen, not trying to argue just share my opinion.

Justin Olson

Heres GT28RS vs 3071:
http://forums.evans-tuning.com...=2871

The GT2871 should fall right in between the two torque curves...

nick91civicsi

hmmm this comparison dyno seems off....either way im still as confused as i was to begin with :/

nick91civicsi

ok im 90% decided on the 2871 with .86 ar and i was wondering what injectors i would need to go with this setup??

0xenocron

Depends on how much power you are planning on making. Go with the smallest injectors you can safely make the power you desire on.

Tony the Tiger

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TS4L &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

The 3071 with proper setup will out spool the larger 2871, I have seen many dyno charts showing this and seen people make 370hp at only 12-13psi with it. Here is a dyno chart of a 3071 at 13 psi.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Spool is just spool; for example, an equal length manifold also spools faster than a log manifold RPM-wise as discussed before. It won't necessarily mean that the EL manifold would get back in action quicker than the log manifold. If you were to fall out of boost and get back on it, that would be a different stroy between the two turbos. Dyno results are mostly done by loading the engine from 2000RPM or so, and larger turbos always has the advantage of already carrying the momentum starting at a low RPM.

Dyno graphs are simply dyno graphs, it can't measure transient response in which the GT28RS or GT2871R really shines. It's one of those things that could never be described in words, pretty much the reason why there are always a bunch of die-hard all motor fans

nick91civicsi

hmmm i see.... well that only gives me more questions so ill just pretend i never read that! ha anyways, i was talking to someone and realized the downpipe that comes with the turbonetics kit is only 2.5" and the outlet on the 2871 is 3" so is there some way to make it work?

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tony the Tiger &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Spool is just spool; for example, an equal length manifold also spools faster than a log manifold RPM-wise as discussed before. It won't necessarily mean that the EL manifold would get back in action quicker than the log manifold. If you were to fall out of boost and get back on it, that would be a different stroy between the two turbos. Dyno results are mostly done by loading the engine from 2000RPM or so, and larger turbos always has the advantage of already carrying the momentum starting at a low RPM.

Dyno graphs are simply dyno graphs, it can't measure transient response in which the GT28RS or GT2871R really shines. It's one of those things that could never be described in words, pretty much the reason why there are always a bunch of die-hard all motor fans </TD></TR></TABLE>

Couldn't have said it better myself.