wfocrx

I currently have a d16z6 w/ a 50trim .63ar turbo w/ mini log+2.5" dp back. I have crome pro and got my a/f ratio dialed in at ~11.5:1 under boost and am using a conservative 1* per psi retard tune. I made 224whp at 10psi; but want more power so I'am at a cross roads trying to decide to build up my d16 or just "go b". I was wondering with all things the same turbo+manifold+simple tune w/ 1* retard per psi and simular a/f ratio.how much more power would a b18c make?

Running925

cost wise, it's gonna be cheaper to buy pistons / rods / studs for your d-series than to change motors and then have to modify your turbo setup as well.

i say build the d & crank the boost!

i've seen a lot of good things comming from the d's latley

Joseph Davis

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Running925 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i say build the d & crank the boost!</TD></TR></TABLE>

X10

Past 350-400 D16 become pretty volatile and you might want to jump ship for a B. However, I get the feeling another 75-125 whp will make you happy for a good long while.

wfocrx

its funny, a little over a year ago I was deciding d or b everyone told me to go b; but, I went with the d16. Now, everyone is telling me to stick with the d16.

I'am only looking for 3xx whp. as anything more is useless in a light fwd even with drag radials.

the thing is I need a new tranny, and want new mounts, part of the reasoning of getting the b-series. My chipped p28, injectors, harness and everything should work for a b-series, so I really only need mounts, axles, linkage, engine, tranny, b16 turbo manifold

Joseph Davis

I was boycotting this site last year is why you didn't get solid advice then.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by wfocrx &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'am only looking for 3xx whp. as anything more is useless in a light fwd even with drag radials.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Try 400-425, but it takes some suspension work and the car is useless at that power level on the street.

tweekerz

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by wfocrx &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I currently have a d16z6 w/ a 50trim .63ar turbo w/ mini log+2.5" dp back. I have crome pro and got my a/f ratio dialed in at ~11.5:1 under boost and am using a conservative 1* per psi retard tune. I made 224whp at 10psi; but want more power so I'am at a cross roads trying to decide to build up my d16 or just "go b". I was wondering with all things the same turbo+manifold+simple tune w/ 1* retard per psi and simular a/f ratio.how much more power would a b18c make? </TD></TR></TABLE>

b18c1 w/ log mani & t3/t4 57 trim @ 7psi on a conservative tune w/ crome pro i'm making 290whp/205tq.

1991civicsi

Single cam FTW

Joseph Davis

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tweekerz &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

b18c1 w/ log mani & t3/t4 57 trim @ 7psi on a conservative tune w/ crome pro i'm making 290whp/205tq.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

That's nice and all, but what does that have to do with this thread?

QuarterMileMaster

I say stick with the D16. You can get your tranny rebuilt by gearspeed with carbon synchros and such for around $1200, get motor mount inserts from energy suspension for $60 I think, and build your d16 with rods and pistons and head bolts for about $1000. This making a grand total of $2260. That's a whole lot less then it would cost you for the engine/tranny, mounts, axles, shift linkage, new manifold and piping. Not to mention any b-series tranny you get these days is grinding already too so you'd want to rebuild the b tranny too. Trust me, for your power goals it's a lot more cost effective to build the d and up the boost.

Autoworks

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by QuarterMileMaster &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I say stick with the D16. You can get your tranny rebuilt by gearspeed with carbon synchros and such for around $1200, get motor mount inserts from energy suspension for $60 I think, and build your d16 with rods and pistons and head bolts for about $1000. This making a grand total of $2260. That's a whole lot less then it would cost you for the engine/tranny, mounts, axles, shift linkage, new manifold and piping. Not to mention any b-series tranny you get these days is grinding already too so you'd want to rebuild the b tranny too. Trust me, for your power goals it's a lot more cost effective to build the d and up the boost. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Best advice of 07'

Joseph Davis

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by QuarterMileMaster &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You can get your tranny rebuilt by gearspeed with carbon synchros</TD></TR></TABLE>

We are talking D-series here, not B-series. You know Mista Bone aka transzex has replaced three D-synchros in his life? They aren't a weak link in the D-transmissions, so there is no point in dropping that money.

No whines, no grinds? Drop an LSD in it and maybe upgrade to 96-00 shift forks if you aren't running a 96+ box already. Both are pretty straighforward things to DIY if you've the inclination, the only thing you have to clearance is the diff bearings and that's not terribly hard to do as most LSDs they fall right into place and don't need shimmed.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Autoworks &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Best advice of 07'</TD></TR></TABLE>

Disagree.

wfocrx

the tranny whines and grinds. I can't get a 96+ tranny cause it is a crx.

sohc_turd

To the original poster,
Did you spend some time dialing in the ignition on the dyno? That might be worth doing. I'm running a similar turbo setup and baselined at 231whp and dialed it in at 250whp @ 10psi.

its always cheaper to utilize what you already have, and from the looks of it your set up looks to be capable of plenty power for street duty. Its fun at first to burn tires everywhere, but it gets old after a while.

QuarterMileMaster

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Joseph Davis &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

We are talking D-series here, not B-series. You know Mista Bone aka transzex has replaced three D-synchros in his life? They aren't a weak link in the D-transmissions, so there is no point in dropping that money.

No whines, no grinds? Drop an LSD in it and maybe upgrade to 96-00 shift forks if you aren't running a 96+ box already. Both are pretty straighforward things to DIY if you've the inclination, the only thing you have to clearance is the diff bearings and that's not terribly hard to do as most LSDs they fall right into place and don't need shimmed.

Disagree.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Typically people don't mention a tranny rebuild unless it's grinding. The guy just posted that it is grinding. Grinding means bad synchros, synchros are weak in ever Honda transmission. Granted, some may be stronger than others but all of them are weak. Especially seeing how this guy is running a tranny with over 100k miles on it, it probably needs new seals and bearings anyway. No need to be a douche.

Anyway, to the OP, regardless of this issue, we both agree to stay d-series

Autoworks

Another small reason for staying D is the price of transmissions. D series 88-91 transmissions are a dime a dozen. I have (2 Si, and a 4 speed) with less than $50 in eash one. A B16 cable tranny goes for much more than that and are alot harder to find...plus it'll probably already have a 3rd gear grind.

I'm not knocking the B, but if you already have a well working D series setup then you may as well stick with it, especially if you are wanting to stay around the 300whp mark.

Joseph Davis

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by QuarterMileMaster &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Typically people don't mention a tranny rebuild unless it's grinding. The guy just posted that it is grinding.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I missed it, apologies.


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by QuarterMileMaster &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Grinding means bad synchros, synchros are weak in ever Honda transmission.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Wrong, see above.

QuarterMileMaster

I really wouldn't think it'd be the shift fork if he's only grinding in certain gears but I guess that'd be an easy first thing to check anyway.

D-booster

WHP will determin which way you should go, figure that out first. For me...I only wanted 3oo whp there for I stuck with my d16z6, if I wanted over 350 whp I would of defenitly go with a B18c. To anwser your question...the B18c should make 15-25% more whp since it started off with more.


Modified by D-booster at 12:14 AM 6/9/2007

93CX

c

Mista Bone

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by QuarterMileMaster &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I really wouldn't think it'd be the shift fork if he's only grinding in certain gears but I guess that'd be an easy first thing to check anyway.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Please, don't think, it's causing global warming.

Synchros CANNOT grind, you can only mash them. The grinding you hear/feel is the STEEL slider teeth engaging the STEEL engagement teeth on the gear face after the synchro has already been engaged. If the synchro is not allowed time to do it's job (think of it as a brake pad) the the gear and sleeve are moving at different speeds and will grind upon TRYING to engage.

Most OBX installs are $700 including parts and labor, I don't clean the outside of cases, but that can be arranged for a fee.

Gearspeed was who explained to me about "scuffing" the gear cones for quicker engagement/braking without having to goto their carbon synchros.

I've had to replace three synchros in 88-95 SOHC trannys ( all mine) but the lastest round of Y7/Y8 trannys, the steel shifter forks and drivers are MASHING 3-4 synchros, just like B series.

My bad synchro, broken 1-2 shifter caught the synchro and spring ring, locking the tranny into second gear, I drove it home that way.



JD, upgrading the forks is not possible, after seeing the damage from steel forks I'm not even gonna try having them made now.

88-95 alum. forks, maybe have SwainTech try some coatings on the tips.

QuarterMileMaster

ANYWAYS, let's stay ON TOPIC shall we? Ok cool.

Budget + &lt;350 whp = d16z6 &gt; b-series

90teg

His transmission is grinding so the price to fix it is on topic since he wants to know which route is cheaper.

To the OP a gsr swap + turbo = $5000. It will be way cheaper to stay with your setup, even if you have to rebuild the tranny and upgrade your motor.

blackeg

damn we've got all the og's in here. its good to see because of the misinformation that is abound on here. (im guilty as well on occasion)


op- you can definately meet your power goals with a built d series. ive always wanted to run that zex 59300 cam in my z6, but my car was stolen before i could. i can remember seeing and hearing good things about it. i would upgrade to a 3" exhaust but thats just me

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by wfocrx &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">.how much more power would a b18c make? </TD></TR></TABLE>

i tuned a friends gsr with a 57 trim peak boost kit a few weeks ago. he made 300hp and 211 ftlbs tq on 8 psi creeping to just about 10 at 8000 rpms with a rich 11.3 to 11.5 afr.

but think about it, your gonna pay at least 2k bucks for a c1, which was probably already abused, or wrecked in a car. with the d rebuild you have a fresh motor that you know the history of

SovXietday

Vitaras, Eagles, all new bearings/pumps, zex camshaft, zex valve springs, ARP headstuds.

~$1200 and I have a D that's good for 400whp no problem.

Joseph Davis

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by QuarterMileMaster &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">ANYWAYS, let's stay ON TOPIC shall we? Ok cool. </TD></TR></TABLE>

The viability of the transmission and what you do/do not have to dump money into at a given power level is ON TOPIC.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by QuarterMileMaster &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Budget + &lt;350 whp = d16z6 &gt; b-series</TD></TR></TABLE>

Ding ding ding! We have a winner!

I think some D-series ninjas can squeak 400-425 out of one of these setups, but results are going to start varying at those levels.