2.0L gsr, darton sleeved, fully built etc.
t3 60-1, nuekin mani, tial 44, and tial bov

Just switched from chrome to neptune, and I have just ran a manual boost controller off the gate, about 18psi. Were are now using neptune with the aem solenoid and getting 25psi, but it doesn't come in until about 7k. Even off the gate it won't seem to full boost earlier than that. With the manual it will blow the doors off full boosting @ vtec, 5200. Anyone have any suggestions or experienced this before? Boost has never been an issue until this, so I know it's either how it's setup, or how the lines are ran, but my tuner said it's @ 100% duty cycle on the solenoid, and he ran the lines as he always has, and doesn't usually have this problem. I am trying to see if anyone has any suggestions, b/c I am confident on slicks @ track the car is gonna bog between shifts due to the late boost.

Again the car did not have any problems the day I dropped it off with the manual on it. We are throwing it back on tonight just to verify that it's something with the electronic stuff. Thats what makes me beleive it's the routing or how it's setup. We may try routing them another way, or try using the boosting by rpm or mph, instead of gear to see if it will ramp in earlier or something.

Any help greatly appreciated!!
Thanks-Jason

 

I'm interested to see what happens when you put on the manual boost controller and how you have it hooked up

 

there is a good write up on www.xenocron.com

ah yeah, and that thing sounds like a beast

 

lol....What sounds like a beast?

The car runs/boosts fine with the manual on it, just confirmed it. lol... It's scarry how fast the thing is with how the boost comes in so hard with the manual. second gear 5200 full boost @ 23-25psi it blows the doors off and sinks you into the seat and hold on for dear life, it's awesome. I still paid for the gear based, and like the features to help me out @ track so i don't spin as bad in 2nd. So Hopefully my tuner gets it worked out tonight while I'm there. I'm hoping he looks the tune over and it's just something stupid, b/c this manual and 25psi is retarded out of control...funs as hell to drive, but I want my 10 sec. time slip.

I'll keep this updated, and in the meanwhile, any suggestions are greatly appreciated!!!

Jason

 

I was saying your car sounds like a beast.. GL getting 10's.. i need 10's too...

 

Yea the car is def. nasty as **** for being a small t3 60-1 turbo, I'm very impressed for what it is.

Just gotta get this damn boost control issue fixed, and the car should go 10.50's or better.

 

Well just got back from spending 3 ****ing hours on this damn car!!! I'm just fried @ this point, and so is my tuner. We tryed routing the lines another way, played with the duty cycle, all kinds of **** and it just doesn't want to cooperate. At this point I am just not happy with it, and may just leave the manual on. I hate to do that, but I'm not waiting until 7k for full boost, this is a t3 not a big *** 72 or something.

Yes my tuner usually tunes aem, and has been doing neptune since it came out. He told me he's never seen this happen before, which would make sense with my luck. We even tryed lowering the duty cycle to 80 then 90% just in case it was not liking 100%, and the same thing.

I put this post up in the tuning section and my tuner posted up what boost we were getting @ each rpm, check it out, it's just not right, and I am out of ideas. We pulled the gate apart and checked everything. The car was great until this neptune and solenoid went on.

 

Ok. You are still running NepTune with the manual controller correct?

You aren't switching back to your crome bin when you are going back to the manual controller?

Also I would swap out the boost solenoid. It definitely shouldn't effect spool that much, so I am guessing if you checked everything else.. try swapping the solenoid out.

 

Nah. I haven't went back in to chrome. Burned a copy of it buz it's pump gas tune, and left it aside. Car is on neptune, 110 gas, and 25psi.

Heres my newest find. I have 2 tial springs in the gate that, according to tial, is supposed to be 13psi. We took the gate off and put air from our compressor in the bottom port. It sounds like little air is leaking inside maybe past the the "valve guide" in the gate?? Anyhow, we noticed the gate wouldn't even open until about 25psi. So I'm thinking if it says 13psi springs, but takes 25psi to open, I'm leaking 12psi inside the gate maybe, if that makes sense to anyone. So the car is boosting and boosting and eventaully the turbo out spools the this leak inside the gate and gets my 25psi EVENTUALLY around 7k.

So Does that mean the gate is just bad? I mean I don't think I can repair that, unless it's the gasket inside but I doubt it. I was thinking as a band aid a bigger spring would control boost better, but if it's leaking its leaking and I need a new gate. Sucks though cuz I don't have 350 to spend on a tial 44, or have one to swap out.

Any suggestions?

 

If the wastegate isn't effecting the manual boost controller, it shouldn't have an effect on the electronic Neptune setup, or at least not enough to cause the effect you're seeing.

Honestly, it sounds like something is wired wrong, or the boost solenoid is faulty. I'd suggest having him wire in a new one for starters. Also, recheck all your vacuum lines from the WG as well and make sure nothing is pinched off the vacuum block or from the WG to the boost solenoid.

For what it's worth, I run the Neptune RTP setup, boostxgearxrpm and I freaking love it. Tuned/dialed in right you can have a highway king, a 10 second car, and a kickass ride at the HPDE tracks.

 

Well to be honest, I'm not sure if the manual did ok or not. I was just going by feeling of the car, and am now leaning toward it had the same problem. My tuner wasn't available to data log and check it out @ the time.

If the gate is having that issue it's just gonna be all the time. I'm tryin to get ahold of tial tech, but it's pretty hard. I'm confident the diaphram is good, so the only thing left is the small o-ring under the nut inside there, or the ring/valve seat. I dunno, I'm just gonna keep playin with it I guess....

 

at this point i think it would be worth it to pull the wastegate apart and make sure everything is in good shape. putting in the heavy springs can easily result in torn/pinched diaphragms because so much force is needed to get it back together. Also you can confirm spring colors/pressures while your in there.

And as others have mentioned, it seems like the boost solenoid may be faulty. Are you 100% sure its installed properly?
Port 1 - comp housing
Port 2 - top of wastegate
Port 3 - filter

 

The Tial WG is going to leak some, its not an airtight design.

Personally I would try a new solenoid....

 

The solenoid is good, that was the first thing we tested. It's boosting what we set it @ just coming in too late. I'm leaning toward a gate issue.

As I said earlier in the post, with compressed air to the bottom port of the gate it seemed like it was leaking. It's supposed to be 13 psi, but it took 25 psi to open the valve, which would mean there is 12 psi leaking out. With that said, my buddy's supra just chucked a rod and he so happened to have twin 44 gates, so I grabbed one to try it out.

I have NEVER used a port on the turbo for anything. Everything I have is ran directly off the mani, so everything has it's own source.

I have the solenoid as follows: Port 1- bottom port on gate
Port 2- top port on gate
Port 3- vented with the supplies gold fitting

 

this is only correct if you have a tee in the line from port 1 to bottom of wastegate supplying a boost signal.

i would recommend using the fitting on the compressor and setting everything up as illustrated in the directions
http://www.aempower.com/images/produ...%2030-2400.pdf

 

You have to remember there is pressure in the exhaust trying to open the gate while you are boosting. It will open at a different psi if you're just supplying it with compressed air. What port are you hooking your boost reference up to on the solenoid?

 

The way I have it now, is intake manifold to port 1, with a t going off to the bottom port on the gate. Then port 2 to the top, and port 3 vented with supplied fitting. From the note on that instruction sheet, thats the same setup. My turbo doesn't have that fitting there anyhow. I don't see how going to the turbo would be any different.

@ this point I'm just thinking it's my manifold and turbo design. I did just switch to a new manifold. I just don't know of anything else that would effect spool times......

 

The intake manny is not a very desirable spot to draw the boost signal from, it puts vacumn to the wastegate which is also not desirable.

Tapping the Compressor Housing is quite easy or just tap the charge pipe somewhere before your throttlebody like I did and give that a try.

I had a Neukin T3 Ramhorn and a Tial 44mm with the 13psi springs and a bigger turbo than you and never had an issue going from a MBC to an AEM Solenoid running Neptune, still made 20+psi by 5500.

 

I'm an ***!! I never did mention what I have on the car...

I went from t3 mani, to my t4 neukin, and made an adaptor plate to accept my t3 60-1, until I get my t4 sometime soon. I am honestly thinking that, that may be the issue. Would that make sense to anyone? I would think with bigger tubing on that turbo it would flow better, but then again it is t3 and not meant to be on that manifold. Maybe that is my whole issue....

I dunno, my tuner said that he had never hooked that solenoid up like that, and ran it the way my car is on everyones car he does, and NEVER had any problems, let alone my problem....

Sorry guys, I DEF. should have put that up first.

btw- how do you like that 67ho? That is the turbo I'm looking @ getting.

 

Earlier in this thread you said you switched back to the manual and your boost responce came right back, did you still have the T4 manny on the car then?

I love it, I have the BB version...... just swapped housings to a 1.15 divided T4 and a FR divided topmount to get the most out of the turbo.

 

Yea my buddy was running that turbo, before going to a 72, and I'm thinking about picking it up. If you don't mind me asking, what did that set you back brand new, and where did you purchase?

Yes the manifold was still on the car. The problem is, is that my tuner was not around so I wasn't able to see the boost levels @ each rpm, so I really don't know for sure if the manual was working better or not. Going by feeling of the car, it seemed to pick up alittle quicker. I have tried EVERYTHING to figure this **** out, and cant pin point it. I am just gonna rock it and get used to driving it on the higher boost levels.

Is your turbo a divided? My mani is divided, or I guess thats the "technical" name. The collector is divided into 2. Is that the same as twin scroll, or is that something else?

Thanks guys for all the help, but like I said, I have tried everything and I'm just gonna lean toward my setup b/c they are not meant to be mated together. At the same time though I figured the bigger tubing on the manifold would flow better, not cause it to lag.

 

I ran the T3 version .82 with a Neukin T3 Ramhorn, just bought a FR Divided and I pulled off the T3 housing for an ATP 1.15 Divided T4.

 

If the top port does not hold pressure you cant use it. It has to seal up for the solenoid to work properly. I've chased pwm issues before and the problem has lied in the seal between the two halfs several times. Either the diaphragm was messed up or too many bolts stripped out creating a leak.

 

Well, I now have the manual controller back on and I"m boosting WAY better than the electronic. I now have a large blue spring (13psi) in my 38 gate, and i put push to connect fittings on both controllers. I never noticed the little pin hole on the oem fitting for the manual, theres a pin hole that bleeds the pressure. I drilled a new hole in fitting, and the manual works AWESOME!!!

There has to be something wrong with the electronic one. With the electronic hooked up correctly, and everything set the same as the manual, the aem solenoid only puts out basically what the gate is maybe alittle higher?? I don't get it.

Can ANYONE who has personally tuned NEPTUNE tell me if there are settings for the solenoid? I know about the duty cycles and that, but can it be set up incorrectly in mgt.?

 

take an air compressor or c02 bottle and apply 25-30psi of pressure on the top port of the wastegate with the car turned off and check for leaks. if its not leaking, make a pull with no pressure on the top of the gate, then make another pull with 10psi on top of the gate. that should pinpoint your problem in 5 min.