When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
Garrett G Series Turbo - Competitor to the Borg-Warner EFR series or no?
New-ish. They were announced last November but only recently have started creeping into the market.
The tl;dr from Garrett is these are supposed to have the spool and compact size of a GT28 with the power capabilities of a GT30. They're boasting some very optimistic peak HP output that's capable from these turbos, that I doubt would be possible to acquire without running ragged edge pressure ratios. They're claiming most powerful small frame turbo on the market for hyper-enthusiasts.
Main takeaways:
Garrett says this is a completely new, clean sheet design from the GT(X) series
Redesigned compressor and exhaust wheels
Redesigned compressor housings
Exhaust wheel created from Mar-M
New CHRA piston ring design that is supposed to help with oil deflection within the turbo, and help prevent leaks
Physical size is actually smaller than GT28 series
Here is the compressor map for a G25-550. Per Garrett, this is rated to 550hp at 50CFM peak:
From what I'm seeing, to me it looks like a slightly more "filled" graph of a GTX2867R. The two maps are very, very similar, with the G seeming to boast a better surge line up top.
Anyway, just wondering if there was any discussion/thoughts for this. Garrett claims a higher efficiency rate for these turbos compared to the GTX lineup. I haven't seen many (or any, really) real world examples yet, or any dyno videos, so it's a lot of speculation for now. The turbos also cost a good $500 more at minimum compared to the GTX Gen 2 series right now.
I can see the G units potentially becoming very popular for rally cross and time attack type vehicles. I think it could pose as a more direct competitor to the EFR series in that regard. It's also interesting to me that the new Mar-M material still weighs significantly more than the alloy that BorgWarner is using in their EFR series - the EFR still have the lightest turbine wheel in the game.
re: Garrett G Series Turbo - Competitor to the Borg-Warner EFR series or no?
Originally Posted by LightningTeg
Looks like the sweet spot is right around 350-400whp @ 20psi or so. Very nice
That's what I'm thinking too for the G25-550. Should be comfortable/optimum in the high 300, maybe at most low 400 range.
IMO on paper right now it doesn't necessarily look to be worth the extra cash, but it's definitely interesting and I'm curious to see how these perform in real world applications.
re: Garrett G Series Turbo - Competitor to the Borg-Warner EFR series or no?
They have stiff competition with how well the Borg Warner EFR turbos are performing.
It really shows you how much technology has improved turbos in the past few decades. Drag racer seem to be happy paying high prices for Chinese turbos based on 1980s designs, but I think they just dont know what theyre missing.
re: Garrett G Series Turbo - Competitor to the Borg-Warner EFR series or no?
The G-series was to made exactly to compete directly with the EFR Series on the smaller entry-level platforms.
I'm not too worried about Honda enthusiasts with these, except for the newer 1.5 and 2.0 litre models, because, lets face it, your average Honda turbo retrofit project "manager" is just too thrifty to make such a purpose.
For those interested, here is the catalog for the 2018 model series that includes the G-series units.
Re: Garrett G Series Turbo - Competitor to the Borg-Warner EFR series or no?
Look they are trying to highen the turbine wheel efficiency by using small turbine wheel on big housing.
The more you push the wheel/housing to max flow/gas pressure the higher the turbine wheel efficiency but all this
suddenly stop once you reach the limit as an exhaust back pressure punch.
I did and overlay on turbine maps with 3076 and it really surprises me how much exhaust flow this small wheel can handle with the bigger a/r
housings.Its insane.
Re: Garrett G Series Turbo - Competitor to the Borg-Warner EFR series or no?
Haha.. I love it when smart people finally figure out why the combinations that we've used have always worked the way they have.
You should see the N111 60mm turbine when does on sub 2.2litre with even a good .63a/r, much less the bigger housings.
The problem is that people use too large of a housing for that particular exhaust when when turbine gas flow reaches past 22lbs/min. That's when they start thinking that it can be used with large compressor wheels over 61lbs/min. (e.g. GTX3076R & GT3040R).
Either way, I'm excited for the new series. I just hope that Garrett doesn't shot themselves in the foot by going overboard on MSRP. I know that they have to have an ROI for the cost of R&D and development, but they always go overboard on the initial price point, and try to make up for it later by dropping it down during the fiscal year. Many times when they adjust, it's too little, too late. The person had already perused something else
So, we'll see. I've got at least one coming, to make my own impressions
Thought that might help, being written by a former Garrett engineer and all...
I gotcha..Basically the same math as before, just finally adding the variables they should have from previous years. It's about time.
I'll put this link as part of the FAQ "stickies" highlighted in grey. It's school good info... (for those who truly don't tl;Dr)
Re: Garrett G Series Turbo - Competitor to the Borg-Warner EFR series or no?
Originally Posted by TheShodan
Haha.. I love it when smart people finally figure out why the combinations that we've used have always worked the way they have.
You should see the N111 60mm turbine when does on sub 2.2litre with even a good .63a/r, much less the bigger housings.
The problem is that people use too large of a housing for that particular exhaust when when turbine gas flow reaches past 22lbs/min. That's when they start thinking that it can be used with large compressor wheels over 61lbs/min. (e.g. GTX3076R & GT3040R).
Either way, I'm excited for the new series. I just hope that Garrett doesn't shot themselves in the foot by going overboard on MSRP. I know that they have to have an ROI for the cost of R&D and development, but they always go overboard on the initial price point, and try to make up for it later by dropping it down during the fiscal year. Many times when they adjust, it's too little, too late. The person had already perused something else
So, we'll see. I've got at least one coming, to make my own impressions
Im very sure garrett is beng pressured on the aftermarket sales.
GEN2 never took up and more and more precision and efr parts are sold in europe.
Even holsets sell a lot of this new "super 35" and "super 40" custom combinations.
Id still buy EFR over everything. IF garrett comes with new GT30 versions of the real new tech turbine wheels ill get one for sure.
Re: Garrett G Series Turbo - Competitor to the Borg-Warner EFR series or no?
Originally Posted by Balor_Gr
Id still buy EFR over everything. IF garrett comes with new GT30 versions of the real new tech turbine wheels ill get one for sure.
Current market standing, pound for pound I prefer the EFR units as well. The only problem I have with them on some applications is limited turbine housing options.
Re: Garrett G Series Turbo - Competitor to the Borg-Warner EFR series or no?
Originally Posted by Chance EG
Current market standing, pound for pound I prefer the EFR units as well. The only problem I have with them on some applications is limited turbine housing options.
I believe in twin scroll in combination with narrow manifold piping! Theshodan is the T3 open guy so yes. For some its restricting.
Again their T4 1.05 is piece of art.
Re: Garrett G Series Turbo - Competitor to the Borg-Warner EFR series or no?
Originally Posted by Balor_Gr
I believe in twin scroll in combination with narrow manifold piping! Theshodan is the T3 open guy so yes. For some its restricting.
Again their T4 1.05 is piece of art.
And I'm personally a huge fan of anything with a Vband strapped to it haha
Re: Garrett G Series Turbo - Competitor to the Borg-Warner EFR series or no?
Originally Posted by Balor_Gr
I believe in twin scroll in combination with narrow manifold piping! Theshodan is the T3 open guy so yes. For some its restricting.
Again their T4 1.05 is piece of art.
Oh, don't get it wrong, I am a firm believer in twin acroll applications also ; but many believe it is effective in ALL sizes when it is not. Once you get to 60'm and announce, it doesn't have the same effects as it can with the smaller sized turbines. It also is not a catch-all for the wrong exhaust manifold design. Without the proper exhaust steam separation, the benefits of twin scroll (not just a divided entry housing, but true separation around the volute) cannot be felt.
Since many Honda owners use applications that are larger, journal bearing, and less expensive), there's no point in trying get those effects when the right exhaust when, a/r turbine with an open T3 will do the job just fine.
Re: Garrett G Series Turbo - Competitor to the Borg-Warner EFR series or no?
i would love to run a smaller turbo to get better spool and better low end power with out loosing any top end power. I have a stock f20c s2000 motor with a garrett gen 1 gtx3076r with a tial .82 ar housing. It makes 425whp at 13psi on 91 octane and the turbo is maxed out at 588whp at 20 psi on e85.
i was thinking about going with the gen 2 garrett gtx3071r as its rated at 650hp witch is higher than my gen 1 gtx3076r and its a smaller turbo. So it should spool faster with out loosing any top end hp.
but now this new garrett g series g25-660 came out and its even smaller than the gen 2 garrett gtx3071r and its even rated for more power at 660hp. To me this sounds almost too good to be true. And of course there is no real world testing that i have seen with this turbo.
so what do you guys think?? Will slapping the g25-660 turbo in my s2000 make it spool crazy fast and will it still have 600ish wheel hp on the top end.
Re: Garrett G Series Turbo - Competitor to the Borg-Warner EFR series or no?
Originally Posted by riceball777
But now this new garrett g series g25-660 came out and its even smaller than the gen 2 garrett gtx3071r and its even rated for more power at 660hp. To me this sounds almost too good to be true. And of course there is no real world testing that i have seen with this turbo.
so what do you guys think?? Will slapping the g25-660 turbo in my s2000 make it spool crazy fast and will it still have 600ish wheel hp on the top end.
Re: Garrett G Series Turbo - Competitor to the Borg-Warner EFR series or no?
Originally Posted by TheShodan
Only one way to find out, chief.
This is the truth. Only other thing to possibly try is calling Garrett themselves and maybe some of the big dogs (RealStreet, Full Race, etc) and see if they can give you any more advice or input. See if you can get them to give you realistic numbers, we all know Garrett inflates their expected outputs.
I wonder how something like a 7670 would do on your setup.
Re: Garrett G Series Turbo - Competitor to the Borg-Warner EFR series or no?
Originally Posted by TheShodan
Only one way to find out, chief.
i don’t think I want to be the guinea pig on this one. I just got to want a little longer. Someone is bound to buy these new Garrett g series turbos for there cars eventually.
Re: Garrett G Series Turbo - Competitor to the Borg-Warner EFR series or no?
Originally Posted by Chance EG
This is the truth. Only other thing to possibly try is calling Garrett themselves and maybe some of the big dogs (RealStreet, Full Race, etc) and see if they can give you any more advice or input. See if you can get them to give you realistic numbers, we all know Garrett inflates their expected outputs.
I wonder how something like a 7670 would do on your setup.
i still this the g series turbo are too new. So no one really has them and tested them yet. I never really that Garrett inflated there turbo numbers. It has also seems to me that lots of people actually hit the numbers and more with garret turbos.
The erf sieres of turbos wont fit with my setup as the turbos them self’s are physically very large. I’m useing a side mount manifold setup on my s2000 and any turbo physically larger than a Garrett gt35 will not fit.
Re: Garrett G Series Turbo - Competitor to the Borg-Warner EFR series or no?
Originally Posted by riceball777
i still this the g series turbo are too new. So no one really has them and tested them yet. I never really that Garrett inflated there turbo numbers. It has also seems to me that lots of people actually hit the numbers and more with garret turbos.
The erf sieres of turbos wont fit with my setup as the turbos them self’s are physically very large. I’m useing a side mount manifold setup on my s2000 and any turbo physically larger than a Garrett gt35 will not fit.
Spatial constraints in the S2K engine bay definitely make it a bigger challenge to find turbo setups that will fit and work well. Everything crammed up to the firewall and between the strut towers.
G Series is still too new/expensive for most people to start treading waters, but if anyone already has, it'd be these big name companies and race cars.
If you think you could actually hit your WHP goal with the 25-660 and don't mind the price point, then it would be a no-brainer, but I'd wager that you would run out of efficiency in the low to mid 500s. Would still be a wicked spool with a respectable top end for a 4cyl though.
Re: Garrett G Series Turbo - Competitor to the Borg-Warner EFR series or no?
Originally Posted by Chance EG
This is the truth. Only other thing to possibly try is calling Garrett themselves and maybe some of the big dogs (RealStreet, Full Race, etc) and see if they can give you any more advice or input. See if you can get them to give you realistic numbers, we all know Garrett inflates their expected outputs.
I wonder how something like a 7670 would do on your setup.
I've used the 7670 on S2000s like riceball's. It was over rated and didn't perform as well as expected, especially against the GTX3576R. I was surprisingly disappointed
Re: Garrett G Series Turbo - Competitor to the Borg-Warner EFR series or no?
Originally Posted by TheShodan
I've used the 7670 on S2000s like riceball's. It was over rated and didn't perform as well as expected, especially against the GTX3576R. I was surprisingly disappointed
i have seen some evo guys use the efr 7670 also with some pretty poor results. Fully built engines and that turbo maxes out in the low to mid 500whp range
Re: Garrett G Series Turbo - Competitor to the Borg-Warner EFR series or no?
Originally Posted by Geis
@Riceball
Why did you ditch the stroker build again?
i drove the car with the stroker for a few thousand miles but i ended up blowing a coolant hose on the turbo and i over heated the engine. The block was trash so i just ened up throwing my stock f20c back into the car. It really is pointless to build the s200 motor as they are so reliable stock at well over 600whp.
03-22-2018, 12:02 PM
Garrett G Series Turbo - Competitor to the Borg-Warner EFR series or no?
so yes. For some its restricting.
