BuBBa y0!

i thought i finally made a decision of what turbo i wanted for my setup, but just reading more on turbos make me confused Now of course people are going to ask what will be the motor(s) purpose and what my setup will be, which will greatly effect what turbo i choose. I will first just boost on a b16 and see how far the block can go. After reading many various threads, people have pushed from 200HP to 300+HP on a stock b16 block. After the b16, i plan on boosting on a fully built LS/VTEC. I have read the Innovative GTS61 is a good all around turbo, no matter what your setup may be. Titan is using it on their coupe and went i believe 10.07. As far as the GT35R, Full-Race also ran it on one of their cars and has consistently ran 10.50's. So, does anybody have any experience with both turbos? Any help and comments are appreciated.

Thanks in Advance

Arturbo

If you compare both compressor maps they are almost identical. They flow just about the same but the GT35R's compressor is just slightly more effcient. They are both great turbos so I would flip for it and get a Garrett GT35R ..hehe

BuBBa y0!

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Arturbo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If you compare both compressor maps they are almost identical. They flow just about the same but the GT35R's compressor is just slightly more effcient. They are both great turbos so I would flip for it and get a Garrett GT35R ..hehe </TD></TR></TABLE>

thank you for responding to my post! though the GT35R is only *slightly* more efficient, how much of a difference would that really make? The price of the GT35R is substantially more expensive for only a slight difference. The Innovative GTS61 also comes with a ball-bearing option, would that make it perform or even surpass the efficiency of the GT35R (since it is already a ball-bearing turbo and the ITS61 has it as an option)?

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Bubba55 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

thank you for responding to my post! though the GT35R is only *slightly* more efficient, how much of a difference would that really make? The price of the GT35R is substantially more expensive for only a slight difference. The Innovative GTS61 also comes with a ball-bearing option, would that make it perform or even surpass the efficiency of the GT35R (since it is already a ball-bearing turbo and the ITS61 has it as an option)?</TD></TR></TABLE>

I've used both turbos on the same car, and if you must have a number I'd say about 20% more efficient. You'll see it more in a higher boost setup than you would at less than the 10psi mark. Here's an example

B18C1 Bored 84.5mm
9.1CR GE sleeved
Air-water intercooled
Stock stroked

On the Innovative GTS61 - @14psi = 392whp at 250ft/lbs
On the GT35R -@14psi = 420whp at 266ft/lbs

On the Innovative GTS61 - @24psi = 500whp
On the GT35R - @24psi = 526whp


So it is not a whole lot, but it does make a difference

BuBBa y0!

Thank you very much! Now all i just have to consider is which one i want, mostly due to pricing

Muckman

iTrader: (2)

What is the cost of these two turbos?

HugePistons

The GT35 is what I just put on come from a 57trim this turbo is bigger but spools better! dont dyno for a few more days but so far so good!

ATS*Mark

what about the gt35e , its a great turbo , cheaper than the R and better flow

HugePistons

That what mine is a gt3561e no BB but works great so for spool wise the "R" is the BB one.

HugePistons

I picked mine up for 650! same as a 60-1

ATS*Mark

i got mine for 560

HugePistons

damm that is cheap! at cost?

Muckman

iTrader: (2)

But the GT35E isnt ball bearing correct? thats why its much cheaper.

hybrid901

The E isn't ball bearing but the R is.

ATS*Mark

right the E is non ball bearing.....but is still a savage *** turbo

BodyKits NW

I finally have ran this turbo, and it's a lot laggier than what I wanted. I gave Innovative the specs of my old turbo and they said this would match it the best. Performance wise it spools about 500-600 rpm later.

Here is a datalog run I did. Maybe Arturbo can shed some light. But overall I wish it would spooled just as my Precision SC61 did. I hit 10psi on that turbo at about 4650-4700 rpms. I am hittin 10-11psi on the GTS61 at 5200-5300. I have seen 10psi at about 5100 on some datalogs. Still messin with a few things, but it's still laggier.

The specs of my old precision SC61-Turbo Specs-SC61 compressor is a 61mm GT40 56 trim in a T04E(60AR) compressor housing. The turbine is a T3 .63AR with a T04 69 Trim turbine wheel.

GTS61 has the same size compressor housing, but with their 10 Blade Stage 5 Wheel.



Old dyno with SC61

BodyKits NW

Which is larger? The P-trim T04 76 trim wheel or the Stage 5 wheel I got from Innovative? Does this mean the Stage 5 wheel from Innovative is not as efficient?

Enthalpy

All this talk of compressor efficency. but no talk of turbine design or efficiency. what makes the GT35R such a great turbo is the turbine wheel. it is far more efficent than the Stg 5 T3. it can generate more shaft power at a lower flow rate...thus making for quicker spool up. plus i believe the speed lines are a better mathc betweent he compressoor/turbine wheels.

BoostedsiR

good info

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Enthalpy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">All this talk of compressor efficency. but no talk of turbine design or efficiency. what makes the GT35R such a great turbo is the turbine wheel. it is far more efficent than the Stg 5 T3. it can generate more shaft power at a lower flow rate...thus making for quicker spool up. plus i believe the speed lines are a better mathc betweent he compressoor/turbine wheels. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I thought I was the only one thinking this..

Good Catch...

DaX

iTrader: (1)

Isn't the GT35R's MSRP something close to like $1,600?

DIRep972

iTrader: (1)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Enthalpy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">All this talk of compressor efficency. but no talk of turbine design or efficiency. what makes the GT35R such a great turbo is the turbine wheel. it is far more efficent than the Stg 5 T3. it can generate more shaft power at a lower flow rate...thus making for quicker spool up. plus i believe the speed lines are a better mathc betweent he compressoor/turbine wheels. </TD></TR></TABLE>

exactly, and the ball bearing add's to it's efficiency as well.

Even if you went w/ the non-ball bearing set up (GT35e) you are still going to see the benefit's from the more efficient turbine wheel.

Does anyone know FOR A FACT if Innovative get's their turbine wheels from garrett or if they make their own? GT61_1.8T?

not trying to start anything w/ innovative but I heard from a source that their turbine wheels are only about 50% efficient, while the garrett stuff is 65-70% efficient. This would explain why a smaller innovative wheel is actally spooling slower then a larger garrett wheel(precision uses garrett wheels). Like I said I heard it from a source and I don't know it to be a fact or not. Enthalpy, do you know anything about this?

wHOAlly

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DaX &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Isn't the GT35R's MSRP something close to like $1,600?</TD></TR></TABLE>

yes, the garrett one is. i dont know about the precision variant.


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by BodyKits NW &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">But overall I wish it would spooled just as my Precision SC61 did. I hit 10psi on that turbo at about 4650-4700 rpms. I am hittin 10-11psi on the GTS61 at 5200-5300. I have seen 10psi at about 5100 on some datalogs.</TD></TR></TABLE>

holy lagger *** batman!

i hit full boost 11psi on gt3540r .63 /ar 5bolt exhaust (atpturbo.com exhaust housing) at 4100-4200, 85mm bore 8.3:1 (yes, -18cc pistons) lsvtec.

HybridKOOP

The Titan Civic was not using the GTS61 when it went 10-flat.

They are now using a custom-spec larger turbo.

BodyKits NW

It kicks on pretty good though, it's like a whole other gear when this thing fires up.




Modified by BodyKits NW at 11:48 AM 10/7/2004