Syndacate

I'm sorry, I lack the experience here to know this...and I can't find something in the search that's quite what I"m askin here..

my Q is:
what's the problem with running a stand-alone fuel managemment system(unit) and bigger injectors, and a high flow fuel pump, putting the control in the cockpit (on the dash or something), then when you want just turn up, turn it up and have more power, use more gas, hopefully go faster...I suppose you'd need to lean it out so u don't backfire, but what's the actual problem with doing this? Wouldn't it provide a nice easy change from economy to power fairly quickly?

crashoveride

you dont make more by just adding more gas, you would actually lose power. Engines need a proper air fuel ratio. Adding fuel will just cause cels, lose power and wash out the rings. Belive it or not, less fuel or running lean makes more power, but risks detonation.........

skratchnsnift

engines create explosions requiring a specific recipe in order to control these explosion. By increasing the gas, you're disrupting said recipe without consideration of the other parts of the equation.

The "in-dash" unit you refer to is a boost controller and a laptop. As long as you have fuel maps that can accomodate the increased boost (i.e. air) that you're shoving into your engine then that should be fine. However, there are physical limitations you also have to consider. A perfect a/f ratio doesnt mean your rods wont snap because it can't handle the power you want to make.

dpetro1

im also a bit confused by the question. your title and your post dont even really match. you mention an FMU in the title but then talk about stand alone management in your post.

for a boosted application a decent ems, bigger injectors, and a high volume fuel pump is a great idea. that way you can tune for whatever boost level you want and have the proper a/f ratios and timing needed to support it.

btw an FMU is not considered stand alone management. it is simply a fuel pessure regulator that increases pressure when it sees boost. it is not the recommended method of supplying fuel to your boosted engine.

Syndacate

I meant a standalone fuel management unit by FMU...

Anyways

I know that it would run rich when you pump more gas in there, but there's no way that it could lean it out (more o2) to maintain a proper a/f ratio?

I meant like, you turn up the ammount of gas getting pumped into your system, and it automatically updates the map so that with the increased fuel, the ratio stays the same by increasing the air, therefore adding a lot more fuel without running rich..

I think though between dpetro and skratchnsnif I pretty much understand why it's not possible, I'd assume you'd need a turbo or some other form of forced induction for it to work properly... And yeah, I see hwo the engine has its physial limitations, when it coems to rings or rods...

I was just thinking around because I have a really weak engine, I'm trying to get a lil more bang outta it, it's pure stock (I/H/E) and I wanna put LS injectors in there (because I have them for free w/ the car) but I don't think that it'll make a difference without an increased a/f map (chipped ECU) or something to that effect...

Would the bigger injectors do anything besides run on the rich side?

I'm simply not in the mood to spend 3k on a greddy turbo nor put one together as I bought the car for 3k and if I want power, I'd simply get a bigger displacement engine and not a civic, I mean the only real way to increase power would be to get like a B18C5 (GSR I believe) or something to that effect which isn't worth the ammount of money I bought the car for, I don't intend on keeping it forever, but I don't intend on throwing it away either...

So I just wanna like, put a lil power into it, remain N/A though, I have basic stock (I, H/E I'll have in a month or so :-\) - I guess i can go with a bigger intake manifold and throttle body but I suppose that's it..i mean anything else and I'd need a swap, new valvesprings, bore the engine, I mean there's not a lot of N/A potential with a D16Z6 motor and it just isn't worth swapping, so I was just hoping for some extra power out of it, I doubt i'ma go for a skunk 2 intake manifold so I was just playing with some ideas, maybe somewhere down the road I'll get a bigger tb, if anybody has any ideas, please, share

dpetro1

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Syndacate &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">


I meant like, you turn up the ammount of gas getting pumped into your system, and it automatically updates the map so that with the increased fuel, the ratio stays the same by increasing the air, therefore adding a lot more fuel without running rich..</TD></TR></TABLE>

Well you are thinking about it kinda backwards. the ECU uses MAP and RPM to adjust fuel. you cant make the ecu add air to the motor, it only measures the amount of air and then tells how much fuel to add. you cant change the amount of air entering the engine unless you do something like turbo, cams, port n polish, IM and TB like you mentioned. I hope that made sense

You will not see any increased performance by just adding bigger injectors. for an NA motor the stock size is usually all you need. maybe 310's at most, for heavily modded, high compression engines. when you get into turbos you are adding so much more air that you must have the bigger inejctors to supply the fuel needed to create the proper A/F ratios.

In your case you could probably throw together a decent little homemade style turbo setup for the d-series and make a decent amount of power. that way you wouldnt have to wory about taking the engine apart and messing with internals.


Also like you mentioned you would need a chipped ECU and an EMS program to run the bigger injectors properly anyways. the stock ECU is calibrated for 240cc (b-series anyways) injectors. if you put in bigger injectors the ECU would not know how to control them properly

another side note. the b18c5 is usdm itr, b18c1 is usdm gsr

Syndacate

ya, so w/o going FI, only chance I really have without boring it out, titanium valve springs, high compression pistons is just the IM and the TB? Anything else that's relatively possible? I suppose I can chip the ECU, but I have a feeling it'll just use more gas, run rich, not really put out

dpetro1

with a fair amount of mods a chipped ecu would probably do some good. if you actually get it properly tuned on the dyno then there should be no reason for it to use more gas under normal driving.

look around in the all motor forum and see what the d-series guys are doing. they can probably give you some good ideas about a cam, or other mods that might help you out.

Syndacate

other N/A guys are swapping, there's not any potential in a D16Z6 motor, if i had a B18C5 we'd be talking something different here, but the D16Z6 doesn't have much without FI, but yeah, I'll be rollin 'round the N/A forum to see who gots what when I get a chance, I just don't want to start swapping internals, I don't have a lot of cash on me now, and I don't intend on going all honda (like some of u guys are really into honda while I'm more of a V8 kinda guy), I just wanted a 4 cyl (fuel efficient) that's nice, works for me (I hate driving hydrulic clutches and managed throttle systems like in my GTI), like cable systems like in the civic better...

So that's my story in a nutshell, I don't plan on keeping this honda till I"m 80, and at the rate I tend to expletive around on the road, it probably won't last that long, one thing I"m majorly happy about is the drum brakes in the back, they lock, unlike 4 wheel discs definately fun..

The other part is I don't even know where a dyno is around here...and I also hear dyno time is very expensive, but never-the-less, I'd have to find one first, but I don't feel like getting a chip that I have to re-program with a management system and a chip burner on a dyno, rather just get an ECU I can slap in there, yeah it won't provide the best results, but if I wanted to go the route of burning it all myself and soddering the socket into the P28 myself (which I'd probably fu8k up) I wouldn't probalby buy one :-\