Flame away: I want to become a tuner.
02-11-2005, 05:38 PM
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Flame away: I want to become a tuner.
*straps up and prepares for the fire*
What are some good recommendations for books I can read on tuning engine management systems? I already have read Corky Bell's book (VERY good read), and I heard that Ben Strader has a new book out too
As far as tuning sessions, what else is there besides EFI 101 (which I plan on enrolling in)?
How can I get certified to tune AEM EMS and Neptune?
I know I'm asking a lot, and I don't expect any of this to happen overnight (or even in the next year), but it's something I'm genuinely interested in pursuing for a side hobby.
My initial plan was to start with Uberdata (already downloaded the software, looks damn confusing at first glance
), and buy a wideband and laptop so I can street-tune my own setup. Then move on to Hondata/AEM/etc.
Tuners, step up and tell us how you got into the "art" of tuning. I hope this thread helps out others besides myself.
What are some good recommendations for books I can read on tuning engine management systems? I already have read Corky Bell's book (VERY good read), and I heard that Ben Strader has a new book out too
As far as tuning sessions, what else is there besides EFI 101 (which I plan on enrolling in)?
How can I get certified to tune AEM EMS and Neptune?
I know I'm asking a lot, and I don't expect any of this to happen overnight (or even in the next year), but it's something I'm genuinely interested in pursuing for a side hobby.
My initial plan was to start with Uberdata (already downloaded the software, looks damn confusing at first glance
), and buy a wideband and laptop so I can street-tune my own setup. Then move on to Hondata/AEM/etc.Tuners, step up and tell us how you got into the "art" of tuning. I hope this thread helps out others besides myself.
02-11-2005, 05:49 PM
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Re: Flame away: I want to become a tuner. (boostincoupe)
EFI101 and EFI Advanced are very useful, though I found the Advanced course a lot more beneficial than the intro course. I'm by no means a 'tuner,' but its something that I also want to get into on the side for fun. To be certified by AEM you need to be an employee of a shop and be able to prove so. I'm not sure about Neptune. Ben Strader's book is more of an overview of the different systems that are out there instead of theory from what I have heard.
After using an Autronic system on a Dynapak dyno, I can say that I have no ambition to ever tune a car with Uberdata. Being able to change ignition values in realtime saves a hell of a lot of dyno time that would otherwise be spent burning chips.
I have no personal experience with this book, http://www.amazon.com/exec/obi...07846, but I have seen it recommended to others in the past.
After using an Autronic system on a Dynapak dyno, I can say that I have no ambition to ever tune a car with Uberdata. Being able to change ignition values in realtime saves a hell of a lot of dyno time that would otherwise be spent burning chips.
I have no personal experience with this book, http://www.amazon.com/exec/obi...07846, but I have seen it recommended to others in the past.
02-11-2005, 06:10 PM
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Re: Flame away: I want to become a tuner. (boostincoupe)
I've heard the same about the EFI101 courses, evidently the beginner is a bit 'overly' beginner for many, but perhaps somebody who actualy took the course can chime in about it because it's something I really want to do next time they're in Fl.. I have Corky Bell's book also, terrific read, but I had two other books suggested to me by Jeff Evans, one of which was "Internal Combustion Engines by Haywood.....?" and I forget the other, I'll have to ask him again, but in any event I definatley would like a 'deeper' read on tuning theory. Max. Boost only scratches the surface imo.
02-11-2005, 07:49 PM
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Re: Flame away: I want to become a tuner. (entr0py)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by entr0py »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
After using an Autronic system on a Dynapak dyno, I can say that I have no ambition to ever tune a car with Uberdata. Being able to change ignition values in realtime saves a hell of a lot of dyno time that would otherwise be spent burning chips.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
hahaha thats what my little bro said after coming back from efi101 in washington.
After using an Autronic system on a Dynapak dyno, I can say that I have no ambition to ever tune a car with Uberdata. Being able to change ignition values in realtime saves a hell of a lot of dyno time that would otherwise be spent burning chips.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
hahaha thats what my little bro said after coming back from efi101 in washington.
02-11-2005, 07:59 PM
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Re: Flame away: I want to become a tuner. (01geeser)
Here's the dyno from the Porsche 924 that we worked on in the January 29th EFI Advanced course. This is on a bone stock 15+ year old car. The thing was beat. We probably spent a total of no more than an hour tuning ignition timing. God knows how long it would've taken burning chips.
02-11-2005, 08:46 PM
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Re: Flame away: I want to become a tuner. (boostincoupe)
boostincoupe,
If you are planning on doing a lot of street tuning for folks in your area, maybe you should look into getting an Ostrich? I already have my Moates BURN1, but now (thanks to 93turbo16) I'm also thinking about getting an Ostrich so people in my area can use it to tune UD.
I'm also interested in learning how to tune. Do the books listed above go over general tuning concepts, like how to deal with timing, AFR's, EGT, and all the other stuff. I've seen people look at a dyno chart and just by looking at the jagged HP curves, they can tell there is something wrong with the timing. Or when somebody is riding in a car getting street tuned and it mysteriously cuts out, they can accurately determine that there is a problem with the ignition.
That's the kind of stuff I want to learn.
If you are planning on doing a lot of street tuning for folks in your area, maybe you should look into getting an Ostrich? I already have my Moates BURN1, but now (thanks to 93turbo16) I'm also thinking about getting an Ostrich so people in my area can use it to tune UD.
I'm also interested in learning how to tune. Do the books listed above go over general tuning concepts, like how to deal with timing, AFR's, EGT, and all the other stuff. I've seen people look at a dyno chart and just by looking at the jagged HP curves, they can tell there is something wrong with the timing. Or when somebody is riding in a car getting street tuned and it mysteriously cuts out, they can accurately determine that there is a problem with the ignition.
That's the kind of stuff I want to learn.
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02-11-2005, 08:51 PM
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Re: Flame away: I want to become a tuner. (BlueShadow)
If you arent spending 170 on an ostrich, and you seriously plan on tuning your car... your wasting your money with a burner. RTP is where its at. If the ostrich doesn't work with uberdata, it works with crome (eeeeeaaassssier interface, much more fun to work with)
02-11-2005, 09:08 PM
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Re: Flame away: I want to become a tuner. (Si Shane)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Si Shane »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">crome (eeeeeaaassssier interface, much more fun to work with)</TD></TR></TABLE>
You know these people making up free standalones should think up better names for their programs. I keep hearing how Neptune is the shizzle or how Crome is easy to use, but yo guys should try doing a search for those terms on the net and see what comes up.
When I first heard about Uberdata I didn't know what it was so i went to yahoo.com and typed it in the search engine and the first link was the UD homepage. If I type in "Crome" or "Neptune" in a search engine I get links on researching male masculinity and sites about planets of the solar system. If Crome had been named Johncuidata instead I would have found all the info on it right away after just a brief search, and that's what I would have been using today instead of Uberdata. hehehe
anyways I dont know what the point of this point was...or if I was even trying to make a point
You know these people making up free standalones should think up better names for their programs. I keep hearing how Neptune is the shizzle or how Crome is easy to use, but yo guys should try doing a search for those terms on the net and see what comes up.
When I first heard about Uberdata I didn't know what it was so i went to yahoo.com and typed it in the search engine and the first link was the UD homepage. If I type in "Crome" or "Neptune" in a search engine I get links on researching male masculinity and sites about planets of the solar system. If Crome had been named Johncuidata instead I would have found all the info on it right away after just a brief search, and that's what I would have been using today instead of Uberdata. hehehe
anyways I dont know what the point of this point was...or if I was even trying to make a point
02-11-2005, 09:19 PM
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Re: Flame away: I want to become a tuner. (Si Shane)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Si Shane »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">there is a thread up top in the cromforum on pgmfi.org about importing uberdata maps... </TD></TR></TABLE>
? :confused: I'm not saying I want to change over, I was just sort of ranting.
BTW I checked out the Crome forum on pgfmi and one thing did catch my eye. In the features list it says that datalogging is an extra $149 which comes with Cromepro. UD's datalogging is free and included with every version of 1.7+. Is datalogging still a pay-only feature for Crome or is it free?
</TD></TR></TABLE>? :confused: I'm not saying I want to change over, I was just sort of ranting.
BTW I checked out the Crome forum on pgfmi and one thing did catch my eye. In the features list it says that datalogging is an extra $149 which comes with Cromepro. UD's datalogging is free and included with every version of 1.7+. Is datalogging still a pay-only feature for Crome or is it free?
02-11-2005, 09:55 PM
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Re: Flame away: I want to become a tuner. (entr0py)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by entr0py »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> Here's the dyno from the Porsche 924 that we worked on in the January 29th EFI Advanced course. This is on a bone stock 15+ year old car. The thing was beat. We probably spent a total of no more than an hour tuning ignition timing. God knows how long it would've taken burning chips.</TD></TR></TABLE>
uberdata does have the ability to tune on the fly. All you need is a $175 ostrich so no need to keep reburning chips anymore. IMO unless you have an all out drag setup then something like uberdata, crome, hondata, etc. is enough.
uberdata does have the ability to tune on the fly. All you need is a $175 ostrich so no need to keep reburning chips anymore. IMO unless you have an all out drag setup then something like uberdata, crome, hondata, etc. is enough.
02-11-2005, 10:06 PM
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Re: Flame away: I want to become a tuner. (SOHC_MShue)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SOHC_MShue »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">uberdata does have the ability to tune on the fly. All you need is a $175 ostrich so no need to keep reburning chips anymore. IMO unless you have an all out drag setup then something like uberdata, crome, hondata, etc. is enough. </TD></TR></TABLE>
I didn't know that. Definitely makes things a lot easier.
Is it real time where you can vary ignition/fuel with the car running/while on the dyno?
I didn't know that. Definitely makes things a lot easier.
Is it real time where you can vary ignition/fuel with the car running/while on the dyno?
02-11-2005, 10:11 PM
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Re: Flame away: I want to become a tuner. (entr0py)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by entr0py »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I didn't know that. Definitely makes things a lot easier.
Is it real time where you can vary ignition/fuel with the car running/while on the dyno?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yup, the Ostrich is an emulator which has a 28 pin plug that connects to where the chip normally sits. The plug is connected to the romulator which is hooked up to the laptop. When you make a change in the fuel or timing tables, all you do is click on "upload" it to the emulator and the changes take effect. Once your maps have been finalized, you save the .bin and you turn off the car and unplug the Ostrich. Then you plug in your burner to the laptop and burn the final .bin to a chip which you then plug into the ECU.
After a little coaxing a few people convinced me to look at the Ostrich, and ater looking at it I might get one.
Is it real time where you can vary ignition/fuel with the car running/while on the dyno?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yup, the Ostrich is an emulator which has a 28 pin plug that connects to where the chip normally sits. The plug is connected to the romulator which is hooked up to the laptop. When you make a change in the fuel or timing tables, all you do is click on "upload" it to the emulator and the changes take effect. Once your maps have been finalized, you save the .bin and you turn off the car and unplug the Ostrich. Then you plug in your burner to the laptop and burn the final .bin to a chip which you then plug into the ECU.
After a little coaxing a few people convinced me to look at the Ostrich, and ater looking at it I might get one.
02-11-2005, 10:15 PM
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Re: Flame away: I want to become a tuner. (BlueShadow)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by BlueShadow »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Yup, the Ostrich is an emulator which has a 28 pin plug that connects to where the chip normally sits. The plug is connected to the romulator which is hooked up to the laptop. When you make a change in the fuel or timing tables, all you do is click on "upload" it to the emulator and the changes take effect. Once your maps have been finalized, you save the .bin and you turn off the car and unplug the Ostrich. Then you plug in your burner to the laptop and burn the final .bin to a chip which you then plug into the ECU.
After a little coaxing a few people convinced me to look at the Ostrich, and ater looking at it I might get one.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Thats pretty damn sweet. The stuff people keep coming up with based on the stock ECUs is pretty crazy. I'd say if you're going to be doing any dyno tuning at all its worth it. The time you save not having to **** around burning chips while on the dyno will pay for the cost of the Ostrich.
After a little coaxing a few people convinced me to look at the Ostrich, and ater looking at it I might get one.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Thats pretty damn sweet. The stuff people keep coming up with based on the stock ECUs is pretty crazy. I'd say if you're going to be doing any dyno tuning at all its worth it. The time you save not having to **** around burning chips while on the dyno will pay for the cost of the Ostrich.
02-11-2005, 10:34 PM
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Re: Flame away: I want to become a tuner. (entr0py)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by entr0py »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Thats pretty damn sweet. The stuff people keep coming up with based on the stock ECUs is pretty crazy. I'd say if you're going to be doing any dyno tuning at all its worth it. The time you save not having to **** around burning chips while on the dyno will pay for the cost of the Ostrich. </TD></TR></TABLE>
yea man its sweet. I will probably be getting an ostrich in march
</TD></TR></TABLE>yea man its sweet. I will probably be getting an ostrich in march
02-12-2005, 05:50 AM
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Lots of criticism seems to come from those who don't keep up with Uberdata. It's unfortunate that more people don't give it a chance, a little attention from a few tuners here and there could really change how people look at Uberdata. I think a lot of people would be surprised to know that there are UD users idling 1000cc injectors and boosting to the limits of the GM 3bar.
It's not perfect, but it sure as hell runs my car as well as I've seen zdyne and hondata setups run.
It's not perfect, but it sure as hell runs my car as well as I've seen zdyne and hondata setups run.
02-12-2005, 06:30 AM
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Re: (Mad Cow)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mad Cow »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Lots of criticism seems to come from those who don't keep up with Uberdata. It's unfortunate that more people don't give it a chance, a little attention from a few tuners here and there could really change how people look at Uberdata. I think a lot of people would be surprised to know that there are UD users idling 1000cc injectors and boosting to the limits of the GM 3bar.
It's not perfect, but it sure as hell runs my car as well as I've seen zdyne and hondata setups run.</TD></TR></TABLE>
i think it is not so important if you tune uberdata, hondata, motec or something else for a *** of money... the most depends on the tuner (person) itself and not the type of engine management...
put a bad tuner on a motec i. e and you will get ****.
put a good tuner on a motec i.e. and you get a rocket...
put a good tuner on uberdata and you will also get a rocket
put a bad tuner on uberdata and you will get the same result as with a motec.
i think most tuners who had really god experiences with ems like hondata and motec like the tools wich comes with these ems and which are not available to ubertata.
that makes uberdata not a bad ems... but often you got what you pay... and thats so also with uberdata.
uberdata is a great tool for ppl who tune themself with a low burget and far better then a fmu in my eyes... but i think it can't beat a professional ems in the right hands.
i don't want to start another "whats the best ems" thread, because as i wrote above the tuner itself makes 90% of the result in my eyes... no metter what type of ems.
It's not perfect, but it sure as hell runs my car as well as I've seen zdyne and hondata setups run.</TD></TR></TABLE>
i think it is not so important if you tune uberdata, hondata, motec or something else for a *** of money... the most depends on the tuner (person) itself and not the type of engine management...
put a bad tuner on a motec i. e and you will get ****.
put a good tuner on a motec i.e. and you get a rocket...
put a good tuner on uberdata and you will also get a rocket
put a bad tuner on uberdata and you will get the same result as with a motec.
i think most tuners who had really god experiences with ems like hondata and motec like the tools wich comes with these ems and which are not available to ubertata.
that makes uberdata not a bad ems... but often you got what you pay... and thats so also with uberdata.
uberdata is a great tool for ppl who tune themself with a low burget and far better then a fmu in my eyes... but i think it can't beat a professional ems in the right hands.
i don't want to start another "whats the best ems" thread, because as i wrote above the tuner itself makes 90% of the result in my eyes... no metter what type of ems.
02-12-2005, 01:06 PM
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Re: (mrx)
I cant use crome with my ostrich, i've never actually had the chance to tune with it, i just got familiar with it and made a few basemaps and i much prefer the interface. Its more windows-esque. uberdata is more dos-esque 
You have to pay to datalog, i do like lambda log, i cant argue against that. Lambda log owns. tuning is for ******* idiots with it. my g/f tuned half of my car :D
Crome i think is more fun to use, once i get my touchscreen lcd mounted i'll be using crome because of the tap up down arrows and easy selections. Uberdata would be almost useless w/ a touchscreen.
You have to pay to datalog, i do like lambda log, i cant argue against that. Lambda log owns. tuning is for ******* idiots with it. my g/f tuned half of my car :D
Crome i think is more fun to use, once i get my touchscreen lcd mounted i'll be using crome because of the tap up down arrows and easy selections. Uberdata would be almost useless w/ a touchscreen.
02-12-2005, 01:38 PM
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Re: Flame away: I want to become a tuner. (SOHC_MShue)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SOHC_MShue »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
uberdata does have the ability to tune on the fly. All you need is a $175 ostrich so no need to keep reburning chips anymore. IMO unless you have an all out drag setup then something like uberdata, crome, hondata, etc. is enough. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Live edit does not work as of yet, I guess you could call hitting the upload button every 30 seconds tuning on the fly.. but it will be great once live edit works in conjunction with the ostrich and auto tune. You can't beat it.. I just have a corrupt version.. everytimg I tune with ostrich.2 it gives me a pain in the *** 256Kb file size, and I have to convert it to something else, to tune it again.
uberdata does have the ability to tune on the fly. All you need is a $175 ostrich so no need to keep reburning chips anymore. IMO unless you have an all out drag setup then something like uberdata, crome, hondata, etc. is enough. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Live edit does not work as of yet, I guess you could call hitting the upload button every 30 seconds tuning on the fly.. but it will be great once live edit works in conjunction with the ostrich and auto tune. You can't beat it.. I just have a corrupt version.. everytimg I tune with ostrich.2 it gives me a pain in the *** 256Kb file size, and I have to convert it to something else, to tune it again.
02-12-2005, 02:14 PM
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Re: (Si Shane)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Si Shane »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Its more windows-esque. uberdata is more dos-esque </TD></TR></TABLE>
I noticed that about Uberdata too, but then I changed my Windows XP theme settings from Windows Classic to Windows XP, now it looks a lot better.
</TD></TR></TABLE>I noticed that about Uberdata too, but then I changed my Windows XP theme settings from Windows Classic to Windows XP, now it looks a lot better.
02-12-2005, 03:11 PM
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Re: (BlueShadow)
when i tuned my car, (i do NOT claim to be a tuner) it took SOOOOOOOO LOOOOOOOONG burning chips. more info on the ostrich? i know, i know, search.
02-12-2005, 03:44 PM
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Re: (2SLO)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 2SLO »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">when i tuned my car, (i do NOT claim to be a tuner) it took SOOOOOOOO LOOOOOOOONG burning chips. more info on the ostrich? i know, i know, search. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Go to the uberdata forums HERE and check out the Software/Scripts Guinea pigs forum and look for the Ostrich How-To and Ostrich Support, and Ostrich: First Impression threads.
Go to the uberdata forums HERE and check out the Software/Scripts Guinea pigs forum and look for the Ostrich How-To and Ostrich Support, and Ostrich: First Impression threads.
