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finally back and running but time for an upgrade...going E85

finally back and running but time for an upgrade...going E85

 
Old 03-03-2019, 09:06 PM
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Default finally back and running but time for an upgrade...going E85

for those that know me already, ive been gone for a bit trying to figure out what was wrong with my teg since it didnt want to stay running. for more insight for those that want to know look here
TL;DR
the car would die when i opened the throttle and now it runs.

my car was recently retuned on a mustang dyno but wasnt done fully. from what the tuner was telling me, and from what i understood but ill paraphrase it here. my setup will make a lot of power but i have a bottleneck at my wastegate. my 38mm tial wastegate is holding me back from producing more power safely. he was saying something like, i have to much exhaust load/pressure in which my wastegate cant handle with my current setup. i understood what he meant, but i cant break it down as he did. maybe someone can but i cant, lol. anyways, the next step ill have to do is plan on going flex fuel setup so i can obviously use both types of gas.

what am i upgrading:
fuel pump from walbro 255 to a 525 in tank (need to do some research on mounting to hanger if needed)
injectors 1000cc precision to FID 1300cc
fuel labs fuel pressure regulator and fuel filter
bigger FMIC since my current garrett is rated for 475hp
precision 46mm wastegate
i do hope to make this blog here or vlog on my youtube channel

current setup:
b18c1
STC predator
synapse turbo ramhorn manifold
manley valve train
itr cams
84mm cp pistons
manley turbo tuff rods
elderbock victor X
blox 70mm throttle
sending it racing ICM bypass
summit racing ignition box
precision 1000cc injectors
tail BOV
tail 38mm wastegate

what am i looking for in terms of power with this setup? anything over 500+ but with goal of 600+ with race fuel if needed
currently sitting at 382 whp on a mustang dyno at 19lbs which is like 436whp on other dynos.

and shoutout to Shodan, the tuner was really impressed with the Predator on how great it performs.


Last edited by justYncredible; 03-04-2019 at 01:38 PM. Reason: name of turbo was incorrect at first
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Old 03-04-2019, 03:18 AM
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Default Re: finally back and running but time for an upgrade...going E85

Originally Posted by justYncredible View Post

my car was recently retuned on a mustang dyno but wasnt done fully. from what the tuner was telling me, and from what i understood but ill paraphrase it here. my setup will make a lot of power but i have a bottleneck at my wastegate. my 38mm tial wastegate is holding me back from producing more power safely. he was saying something like, i have to much exhaust load/pressure in which my wastegate cant handle with my current setup..
You need a new tuner if THIS is what he said, paraphrased OR direct..
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Old 03-04-2019, 04:44 AM
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Default Re: finally back and running but time for an upgrade...going E85

The more power/ boost the car make means the wastegate gets used less. Higher boost use smaller gate/ lower boost use larger gate. Of course the size of the turbo also plays into that
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Old 03-04-2019, 04:58 AM
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Default Re: finally back and running but time for an upgrade...going E85

Originally Posted by turboLScrx View Post
The more power/ boost the car make means the wastegate gets used less. Higher boost use smaller gate/ lower boost use larger gate. Of course the size of the turbo also plays into that
Toward the end, Reaper is mentioned. His current setup listed includes Predator. Either one, 19psi is efficient. Boost range this high with either of those should pose zero call for a larger gate. If a problem with the gate were there, it would result in the boost level getting lowered to avoid creep past a certain point. In other words, he'd have to be put at 19psi because it creeps (example number follows) 10 psi because of the small gate.
THIS theory is believable to a slight extent. Although the current turbo **should** be making better numbers at 19psi, which is why I couldn't apply the creep theory. Methinks the tuner had a brain fart!!
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Old 03-04-2019, 08:53 AM
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Default Re: finally back and running but time for an upgrade...going E85

Do you have a dyno plot? Boost creep can be identified by torque not falling off.
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Old 03-04-2019, 09:10 AM
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Default Re: finally back and running but time for an upgrade...going E85

Originally Posted by turboLScrx View Post
The more power/ boost the car make means the wastegate gets used less. Higher boost use smaller gate/ lower boost use larger gate. Of course the size of the turbo also plays into that
I agree. Even with a Predator. I'm curious as to whether or not he had the 38mm 2-bolt, or the actual 38mm MVS, as that wastegate has a valve that is 40mm.


Originally Posted by Txdragon View Post
Toward the end, Reaper is mentioned. His current setup listed includes Predator. Either one, 19psi is efficient. Boost range this high with either of those should pose zero call for a larger gate. If a problem with the gate were there, it would result in the boost level getting lowered to avoid creep past a certain point. In other words, he'd have to be put at 19psi because it creeps (example number follows) 10 psi because of the small gate.
THIS theory is believable to a slight extent. Although the current turbo **should** be making better numbers at 19psi, which is why I couldn't apply the creep theory. Methinks the tuner had a brain fart!!
The Reaper is a mistype from what I recall. This also leads me to believe that timing is too conservative and the tuner is also farting out of his brain.
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Old 03-04-2019, 01:45 PM
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Default Re: finally back and running but time for an upgrade...going E85

Originally Posted by TheShodan View Post
I agree. Even with a Predator. I'm curious as to whether or not he had the 38mm 2-bolt, or the actual 38mm MVS, as that wastegate has a valve that is 40mm.




The Reaper is a mistype from what I recall. This also leads me to believe that timing is too conservative and the tuner is also farting out of his brain.

im using a 38mm tial wastegate two bolt and yes that was a mistype of the naming of the turbo. i do indeed have a predator turbo.
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Old 03-04-2019, 03:53 PM
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Default Re: finally back and running but time for an upgrade...going E85

Not on topic, just wanted to say I like the black in the headlight recesses
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Old 03-05-2019, 06:49 AM
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Default Re: finally back and running but time for an upgrade...going E85

I made 600whp on a 38mm gate. Your tuner is questionable* if he says that is the problem. Its only a problem if the exhaust cant get out fast enough to maintain solid boost pressure and you get creep. As far as I can tell your fuel setup is the only thing holding you back.
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Old 03-05-2019, 07:17 AM
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Default Re: finally back and running but time for an upgrade...going E85

Originally Posted by justYncredible View Post
im using a 38mm tial wastegate two bolt and yes that was a mistype of the naming of the turbo. i do indeed have a predator turbo.
Gotcha. I don't really think that's the actual factor in your case. I think that the 2 bolt is fine for the amount of boost pressure you're actually running. I was just wanting a bit more detail to get the big picture...


Originally Posted by LightningTeg View Post
I made 600whp on a 38mm gate. Your tuner is questionable* if he says that is the problem. Its only a problem if the exhaust cant get out fast enough to maintain solid boost pressure and you get creep. As far as I can tell your fuel setup is the only thing holding you back.
I don't think it's the gate itself either (as stated above). I think it's a question of the fuel setup, and the way that the solenoid/ & ignition timing may be causing some issues here. I'd honestly try another tuning source to get a different troubleshooting perspective.
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Old 03-05-2019, 07:54 AM
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Default Re: finally back and running but time for an upgrade...going E85

with the setup you have, you should have made way more than 382....at least into mid 400s. Time for a different tuner that knows what he's doing.
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Old 03-05-2019, 07:57 AM
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Default Re: finally back and running but time for an upgrade...going E85

Originally Posted by NVturbo View Post
with the setup you have, you should have made way more than 382....at least into mid 400s. Time for a different tuner that knows what he's doing.
Mustang dyno, nah. Its right on par for the limits of E85/1000s/255
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Old 03-05-2019, 09:18 AM
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Default Re: finally back and running but time for an upgrade...going E85

Also, don't worry about the I/C. Your Garrett is extremely underrated. The 475hp core can take up to about 550whp.
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Old 03-07-2019, 04:53 AM
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Default Re: finally back and running but time for an upgrade...going E85

I'm joining the bandwagon here too saying Either your tuner doesn't know what they are talking about, or you misinterpreted what the tuner said. Small wg is fine for high boost. Large wg is required for low boost. The more boost you run, the less exhaust flows out the wg, because that's how the wg works; bleeding off exhaust before the turbo is how boost is maintained. Bleeding off more produces lower boost, bleeding off less produces higher boost.

also, do not believe the hype about calculations with mustang dynos vs other dynos. If the mustang dyno read 382whp, you can not claim higher. You made 382whp. Yes, some mustang dynos read higher. But it's all in how the dyno is calibrated. When calibrated properly, all dynos will actually read roughly the same. The myth is also that DynaPack dynos read the highest. I have personally tested these myths and proven them wrong. I have a dynapack dyno at my shop. My buddy has a Mustang dyno at his shop. On several occasions I have put various cars on both dynos on the same day and had both read nearly identical +/-3%, in BOTH directions. Besides, dynos are purely meant for a tuning tool, not determining exactly how fast your car is. One car can make 450hp on a dynapack while an identical car in another location can make 500hp on a mustang dyno, and there's a chance the 450hp car could be faster in the 1/4 than the 500hp car even when driven by the same person.
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Old 03-07-2019, 04:59 AM
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Default Re: finally back and running but time for an upgrade...going E85

To add to my above comment; the ONLY way the tuner may have been accurate in what they were saying about the wg is if they were using a fixed duty cycle on the wg solenoid or if you're not using any form of boost controller and are just running straight wg spring pressure with a big spring rating setup, and you were getting boost creep still in higher rpm's. Which is possible. Because in that case, some tuners will just limit the engine to a lower rev limit so it doesn't creep too high. But your boost level with that turbo and that wg is totally manageable with a few tweaks to the tune. Pretty simple actually; use boost by gear by rpm, and reduce the duty cycle at higher rpm where boost creeps in order to maintain a flat boost curve. Or if too big of a spring is installed in the wg, change it out to a smaller spring and do the same as I just mentioned with boost control settings.
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Old 03-07-2019, 05:28 AM
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Default Re: finally back and running but time for an upgrade...going E85

Originally Posted by motoxxxman View Post
To add to my above comment; the ONLY way the tuner may have been accurate in what they were saying about the wg is if they were using a fixed duty cycle on the wg solenoid or if you're not using any form of boost controller and are just running straight wg spring pressure with a big spring rating setup, and you were getting boost creep still in higher rpm's. Which is possible. Because in that case, some tuners will just limit the engine to a lower rev limit so it doesn't creep too high.But your boost level with that turbo and that wg is totally manageable with a few tweaks to the tune. Pretty simple actually; use boost by gear by rpm, and reduce the duty cycle at higher rpm where boost creeps in order to maintain a flat boost curve. Or if too big of a spring is installed in the wg, change it out to a smaller spring and do the same as I just mentioned with boost control settings.
Highlighted above.. Exactly why he needs to get another tuner. 19psi on the Predator is well into and inside its efficiency range. According to STC website, it has a little room for more, in fact. With proper understanding of the wastegate, to say it is the bottleneck is laughable.
Fuel component theory seems to be on par. Ran the numbers through a couple calculators and all VERY similar, but here is one example..


The tuner brain farted hard if he says it's the wastegate. lol
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Old 03-07-2019, 01:25 PM
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Default Re: finally back and running but time for an upgrade...going E85

Originally Posted by LightningTeg View Post
I made 600whp on a 38mm gate. Your tuner is questionable* if he says that is the problem. Its only a problem if the exhaust cant get out fast enough to maintain solid boost pressure and you get creep. As far as I can tell your fuel setup is the only thing holding you back.
im running on 93 octane and i assume youre running e85, am i right?
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Old 03-07-2019, 01:30 PM
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Default Re: finally back and running but time for an upgrade...going E85

Originally Posted by TheShodan View Post
Also, don't worry about the I/C. Your Garrett is extremely underrated. The 475hp core can take up to about 550whp.
seriously? you really think so, because my old school original tuner said very similar things. before you ask why am i not seeing him, its because he is going into a different direction and isnt tuning as much but i might be able to persuade him to change his mind in the future..maybe.
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Old 03-07-2019, 01:52 PM
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Default Re: finally back and running but time for an upgrade...going E85

Originally Posted by justYncredible View Post
seriously? you really think so, because my old school original tuner said very similar things. before you ask why am i not seeing him, its because he is going into a different direction and isnt tuning as much but i might be able to persuade him to change his mind in the future..maybe.
why would I say it, if I didn't mean it
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Old 03-07-2019, 02:16 PM
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Default Re: finally back and running but time for an upgrade...going E85

Originally Posted by justYncredible View Post
im running on 93 octane and i assume youre running e85, am i right?
If you're NOT running E85 right now, fuel isn't your issue. Your 1000cc injectors should get you to 475 range @ 90% DC..

Get a new tuner.
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Old 03-08-2019, 03:20 AM
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Default Re: finally back and running but time for an upgrade...going E85

Originally Posted by justYncredible View Post
im running on 93 octane and i assume youre running e85, am i right?
Yeah sorry I dont know why I thought you were on E85.

In that case you're definitely on the low end of whats possible. Probably safe though.
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Old 03-08-2019, 11:04 AM
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Default Re: finally back and running but time for an upgrade...going E85

Originally Posted by Txdragon View Post
If you're NOT running E85 right now, fuel isn't your issue. Your 1000cc injectors should get you to 475 range @ 90% DC..

Get a new tuner.
im going to call the tuner, Iíve been busy this week, but he did tell me that my injectors are only at 78%. He gave me an explanation as to why he had stop tuning my car but this time Iíll note the reasons down rather than go off memory and paraphrasing.
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Old 03-08-2019, 11:06 AM
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Default Re: finally back and running but time for an upgrade...going E85

Originally Posted by LightningTeg View Post
Yeah sorry I dont know why I thought you were on E85.

In that case you're definitely on the low end of whats possible. Probably safe though.
yeah im thinking some what the same thing but I just want to be concrete on what was told to me before I invest into more products just to switch to flex fuel so I can make more power. In other words, I just donít want to throw money at it just to do it.
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Old 03-08-2019, 11:10 AM
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Default Re: finally back and running but time for an upgrade...going E85

Originally Posted by simike View Post
Do you have a dyno plot? Boost creep can be identified by torque not falling off.
Iím still waiting on the graph because I didnít get it when i was there.
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Old 03-08-2019, 11:11 AM
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Default Re: finally back and running but time for an upgrade...going E85

Originally Posted by jim chuck View Post
Not on topic, just wanted to say I like the black in the headlight recesses
thanks that has been my signature look.
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