f1 vtec

on the final steps of finishing my project im hoping for around 400whp and i have t3/t4e 57trim .63 all bolted up to ready to go on, but i seem to have got myself in to 2 minds because some one told me that both turbos t3/t4 and t3/67 will spool similar but the t3/67 will produce more power!
so just need your advice what would you go for im hoping for early 12s late 11s on a car with all interior daily drive car/ street tires etc.
Your help will be appreciated
thx

b16sedan

T3/T67 = 600+ WHP turbo. Run the 57 trim

f1 vtec

whats the spool times on b16s for both approx?
the way im thinking is it will take less boost to get me to my goal with a t3/67 and it should be easier to get to my goal of early 12s.

but im just worried about spool with the t3/67 anyone used both these turbos which did you prefer ??

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

the t3/t76 is really laggy compared to your average t3/t04e

PM-Performance

i wouldnt run the 57 trim ,bbut for 400whp i wouldnt run the 67 either. Yes they spool exactly the same from my testing. Mine was a 60 trim though.

rhd

the 67 is horrible for lag

if you want a little more power, go with the 60trim

PM-Performance

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by xhardcoresucksx &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">the 67 is horrible for lag

if you want a little more power, go with the 60trim</TD></TR></TABLE>


did you not read my above comment. they are the exact sme in spool up. Ive had them both with combos of diff housings and trims.

rhd

good for you

dome

iTrader: (1)

i would get the t3/t67. it can make more hp for down the road some day. pm boostfed he can get it really cheap. he will save you money. i just got a gt4067 from him and saved me a good bit.

f1 vtec

ok when would i expect to spool the t3/t4e and when will i see full boost( obviously many factors but on an ave b16)
and...
when should i spool the t3/67 and when should i see full boost say im running 15psi on both turbos.

because ifthey spool at similar times then it would be better to get the t3/67

b16sedan

15 PSI on the T3/T67 I would expect around 6000 RPM's on a B16. Figure around 5000 for the T3/TO4E 60-trim Stage 3 hot side.

Boltz

If pete is right, I would go with the t67.

The exhaust housing dictates spool rate, not compressor. But its not like you can run a 1" exhaust housing and a 10" compressor and still be efficient. You need a good balance where power and efficiency meet.

Do some homework and plot some points on compressor maps, then post your findings, this will give us better ability to help you make up your mind.

Bones

PM-Performance

it depends on alot of things. if he doesnt want more than 400whp, then there is no reason why he needs a turbo like that. I dont get that about most honda owners. Thinking bigger is better, when its all about how effient your set up is and how efficiently you run your turbo.

Geoff does work to those turbos though before they go out. I can tell you 1st hand, spool wont be an issue.

f1 vtec

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by b16coupe &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">15 PSI on the T3/T67 I would expect around 6000 RPM's on a B16. Figure around 5000 for the T3/TO4E 60-trim Stage 3 hot side.</TD></TR></TABLE>

well if the t3/67 sees full boost at 6000rpms ill only have 2000rpm of full boost
if i could see full boodt at around 5000rpm with t3/67 thatll convince me to get the t3/67

pete when did you see full boost with both turbos?

would appreciate some further advice thx

f1 vtec

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by itr206 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">it depends on alot of things. if he doesnt want more than 400whp, then there is no reason why he needs a turbo like that. </TD></TR></TABLE>

im not really fussed if i achieve more than 400 whp than be it im only aiming around 400 whp because im not sleeving the car!
the reason im considering a slightly bigger turbo is because im most likely gonna need about approx 18-20psi on the t3/t4e to get me to my goal but the t3/67 will do it with around 11-13psi with a good tune. dont want to run the boost up too much and risk my engine

if i go wrong plz correct me as i am not an expert like many of u!

PM-Performance

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by f1 vtec &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

im not really fussed if i achieve more than 400 whp than be it im only aiming around 400 whp because im not sleeving the car!
the reason im considering a slightly bigger turbo is because im most likely gonna need about approx 18-20psi on the t3/t4e to get me to my goal but the t3/67 will do it with around 11-13psi with a good tune. dont want to run the boost up too much and risk my engine

if i go wrong plz correct me as i am not an expert like many of u!</TD></TR></TABLE>


thats the first problem. Wo cares how much boost you made it on if its in the efficiency range of the turbo? So you can say you made 400whp on 10psi? I wouldnt worry about that , its not the boost that stresses the motor, its the HP. I know I saw boost before 5k on both. Once boost kicked i didnt keep an eye on the gauge becuase i was too worried about keeping thre car on the road. It was well before 6k i know that.

Basically set a goal and go with it. Honestly from what you are saying in your posts, you would be better off with a 60trim

Ri5e

The T3/T67 is good for top end power. If you want 400 WHP and have something more responsive, then you should stick with the 57 trim T3/T4e, but you'll need to run a lot of boost to make the 400 whp.

PM-Performance

on a 60 trim t3/04e, i coulda made, prob did make 400whp on like 14psi. I upped the boost and never redynoed with the t3/04e, went right to the t67

f1 vtec

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by itr206 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">on a 60 trim t3/04e, i coulda made, prob did make 400whp on like 14psi. I upped the boost and never redynoed with the t3/04e, went right to the t67</TD></TR></TABLE>

was your car sleeved?
what boost you reckon ill need to get me to around 400whp on the 57trim t3/t4e.

gosh i remember viewing a vid of your itr pete ride along your car was crazy!!

scoop

t3/t67

DRIVENRacing

sc61

tegs

Like mentioned before, HP kills motors not boost. 400hp on a sc61 is the same to your motor as 400hp on a t04e, no matter what the difference is in psi.

edit: I hope your motor is atleast somewhat built. You can't just slap a turbo on and expect to make 400hp RELIABLY.

liam821

The 57trim is big enough for your 400hp goal. I get full spool around 5500rpms on my 60trim t3/t04e .63ar stage3 on my dohc ZC, which is also 1.6litres. Pulls hard all the way until my 8500rpm rev limiter.

Personally if i were you, id keep the 57trim and see how you like it and how much power you can make. pt67/t3 is gonna be a laggy turbo on a b16a, and like you mentioned, 2000rpms of full-boost sucks.

Innovative can make some custom bling bling turbos that might work good. They can make a GT61 (like a sc61) but with a stage4 wheel instead of the huge stage5. Innovative says they spool really nice on small engines.

liam

f1 vtec

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tegs &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Like mentioned before, HP kills motors not boost. 400hp on a sc61 is the same to your motor as 400hp on a t04e, no matter what the difference is in psi.

edit: I hope your motor is atleast somewhat built. You can't just slap a turbo on and expect to make 400hp RELIABLY.</TD></TR></TABLE>

well depends on what you mean by built i will have 9.01 cp pistons and h-beam rods, the only thing im worried is sleeves!!

b16sedan

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by f1 vtec &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

well depends on what you mean by built i will have 9.01 cp pistons and h-beam rods, the only thing im worried is sleeves!! </TD></TR></TABLE>

If you SEARCHED, you would find tons of people pushing 400+ and even 500+ whp on stock sleeves. With a good tune you don't have a lot to worry about, it's DETONATION that kills sleeves, not horsepower.