On YouTube I saw an ef hatch with a D16Z6 built by Epic Tuning, it ran the quarter mile in 11.34 and was said to be stock, but you can hear the bov in the vid. All the comments left by the viewers contradict each others. My Z6 runs 14’s all stock with the timing advanced, so to run 11’s it must have quite a bit of boost. Does anyone have any info on this car? Also does anyone know how much boost a stock D16Z6 can handle?

 

why do people ask how much boost it can handle

for instance 15 lbs of boost from a T25 is different than 5 lb's on any t3/t04e

weak point as with any d series is the bottom end you can put 200 whp safely and if I recall properly they start to break or destroy themself near 300 hp

 

The weak area of the d-series is the connecting rods, followed by the cylinder walls. I would not take a d-series much past 200hp without fixing at least those problems. The other issue also is the relatively high compression compared with what a turbo motor would be optimal at. The a6 is right around 9.1:1 compression, where a generally accepted good turbo compression would be more like 8.5:1. The oil pump can also be made to flow a bit more than it does, but that is more for all motor and higher rpm issues.

DTA is correct as well.. there is no such thing as a pressure number that a turbocharged engine can handle. The real number is the volume of air at STP the engine can handle, which can be found via a compressor map for a turbo in question.

As far as stock engines are concerned, the d16a6 is the strongest bottom end of all, followed by the z6. The a6 has the beefiest connecting rods of all the stock d-series, but i still would not trust the rods past 200hp.

All i have to say is that if they were in the 11's on a stock block, it probably did it for 2 runs or less, and there is a good bet they weren't daily driving it.
Any car can be an 11 second car once.. its the ones that do it over and over again that are worth watching.

as a final note, youtube comments are among the dumbest words in print in the history of the world. Using them as a source to try and build an 11 second car is not only a waste of time, but it is actively making you dumber. Ask questions here and in the turbo or drag racing forums, and you will find people that actually know how to make a d-series engine more powerful safely, and have shoeboxes full of 11 second time slips "from the old days" to back up what they are talking about..

 

Back when i owned a zc i was always told that their rods are the strongest but then again they are for the most part the same thing as a a6

 

It's 4WD as well, it has the Wagovan drivetrain.

 

The weak link to a d series is the ringlands, then connecting rods and bolts, headstuds, then well after the sleeves and combustion chamber design.

And 8.5:1 < 9.1
8.5:1 is playing it a little safe don't u think? Its not a Subaru

Epic actually ended up bending the rods in that engine.

They sure did a good job with it however and it lasted more than 2 passes. Its all in the tune and didn't Jeff Evans have his hands in it?

Look it up on youtube, they rag the **** out of it

 

[QUOTE=sanimalp;37013126]The weak area of the d-series is the connecting rods, followed by the cylinder walls.


wrong, the d-series cylinder walls have been pushed pretty far, i would trust them to go as far as the b's, after 500whp just cross your fingers, have a detonation free tune, and just hope your time isnt up.

300-450whp isnt a problem for the d-series cylinder walls, connecting rods and cast pistons dont like those kinds of cylinder pressures.

 

I've seen a cracked sleeve on a 1.5 d15b2 and a 1.6 d16a6, and I also agree that the cast pistons are a big problem. I should have prefaced my previous post by saying "in my experience".. everyone has a point in this thread, and that is that a stock d will not put up with power to go 11 seconds reliably without quite a bit of coin involved.

 

yeah i see what your saying, alot of the time cracked cylinder walls can be contributed to detonation and pre ignition, pressure spikes that happen very fast wreak havoc instead of nice gradual normal combustion pressure.

 

I have the video saved somewhere on my comp.
I believe that it is a

stock d series other than arp head studs (not sure which d series)
it make around 300 whp
has a 4wd Wagovan drivetrain

and was tuned very well since i think it has been runnning for quite some time.

Not sure got to find the videos somewhere

its a beast of a car though

 

I just searched around the thread must of got lost when ht switched over...there was thread about it...From what I remeber it was a d16z6 with arps on 20psi making 400awhp...It runing 11's easy being he's cutting 1.5 60fts...Im sure some one will have more info on the car

 

i would have to disagree.

D16's have more then proven itself to hit 11s i know from experience with very budget setups daily driven.

Specially now days with eagle rods + vitaras super budget with stock sleeves. Ran 11.2 all day daily driven. D16s are very well known to handle 400hp easily walls that is. Change out the rods/pistons and youare golden.

the epic ef was 400 on stock EVERYTHING i believe on a wagovan drivetrain and it lasted couple years.

I dont even know why people doubt the D16s anymore.

 

X2 my friend craig's crx si full interior, semi built d16 pistons and rods 18g turbo really simple setup evans tuned make a little over 300whp daily driven ran 11.6-11.9 all day long
Heres the video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWc6SrKIIJ4

 

Speaking of Subarus, even STi pistons aren't forged. Vitaras aren't either; however, both use a much better alloy than Honda suited for boost. Most Honda people go with low boost/tons of timing; factory turbo cars are usually 8:1. As a matter of fact, one Subie tuner who had EXTENSIVE motor experience noted that 5 degrees of advance just about DOUBLED peak cyl pressure on a motor he had rigged with a sensor.

FYI that Epic EF was just about 400whp FWD on the stock head & block - obviously with a turbo kit. It lasted many drag passes, as well as street abuse. My friend raced next to him right before an import event, and he pulled low-11's while FWD.


Last year they upgraded the car to Wagovan AWD, then had a bearing issue. THat's when they discovered the bent rods. How long they were bent nobody knows, but its pretty obvious a conservative tune does wonders. I'm pretty sure the rods bent early on, leading to (unintentionally) very conservitive timing.

 

Dude hate to tell ya but you have a lot of homework to do.

 

Do a quick search there is a thread on this car somewhere in here.

 

Jeff Evans has proved time and time again that d series sleeves are just as strong as b series sleeves and can take abuse.

We are building 3 vitara builds for this season, two eg's and one crx. We got our eyes set on beating the hp record. The ET record however... haha that's going to be alot more difficult.

D series budget builds rock and are pure disposable fun. I'm actually setting my b series projects to the side for this season and concentrating on the d series power plants this year. The only thing that scares me is the un equal length cv setups, ouch.

 

Expensive and D series do not belong in same sentence... For the cost of my turbo kit on my B series I could build a high 10 sec D series, cost of car and all.

 

From their site: http://216.120.253.113/epictuning/ga....php?cat_id=14

The car ran 11.s before the AWD swap!

AWD swap pics: http://216.120.253.113/epictuning/ga....php?cat_id=41

And Videos: http://www.epictuning.com/videos.html


Posts on this car:

http://forums.evans-tuning.com/viewt...hp?f=26&t=3959
https://honda-tech.com/forums/forced-induction-16/epic-tunings-400hp-d16z6-powered-real-time-4wd-ef-hatch-2104408/

 

The dyno thread on the car can be found here on my site: http://forums.evans-tuning.com/viewt...hp?f=26&t=3788

The car was actually sold to a good friend of Craig (the owner of the car/Epic Tuning). The was then sold again to another local guy. Its still around. I think its coming back for a retune this spring with the new piston/rod bottom end.

 

Haha.. right.. I have yet to blow an engine up. I tend to build my cars to handle my intended purpose on the first go around, rather than blow **** up and start over. The engines I referred to are cars that were brought to me for diagnosis, and were set up wrong or tuned improperly from the start. In my first post, I mentioned the cylinder walls being a weak point, and I still maintain that they are, from my observation.

And for the record, I have only built d-series engines, and my main interest lies in d-series performance, so at no point was i trying to convey that the d wasn't up to the task.. they absolutely are, if the right parts are invloved.

 

11.5:1+10psi from a small T3. 240whp on pump gas. Daily drove it and ran won the SE Time Trial championship with it in 2007. Sorry, Nothing wrong with D series sleeves, heads, blocks, cranks, etc. You have two lousy examples to base your limited knowledge. Other than some relatively weak looking stock rods there is nothing wrong with the D series.

 

IIRC, or actually from from what I remember, the Epic EF was on stock internals for quite awhile making awesome power, and ended up swaying me to push the "limits" of my B-Series back then.

Wasn't it not exactly engine failure, but an issue with the car getting hit that cost them the motor?

Either way, that car is billy bad ***

 

Dang, I never saw that it once spiked to 420whp.

 

I agree.. there is nothing wrong with the d-series.

The op asked for weak points. I replied with the information I have. That's all I can do. Never would I want someone to take something I have to say as gospel. If someone is smart, they can read these forums and take stock of how many times they see people break things doing stupid ****, and hopefully learn from it. I am saying simply that I have seen a cracked cylinder wall on 2 separate d-series cars in my time working on them (over 10 years just on the EF). Ive seen 100's more broken timing belts, and digested valves and a bunch of other crap too.

I love how you assume I don't know what I am talking about. It just makes me laugh.