ill try my best to summary this post and not make it into a novel.

i bought a bare 96+ gsr ERL sleeved block from my tuner in which he was planning on building about 7-8 years ago. the block sat in the original package and when i purchased the block this is how it looked.


i sent my block to laskey racing for the short block to be assembled with 84mm cp pistons, turbo tuff rods, acl bearings and etc. mike called me and mentioned during the build that the sleeves (if i remember correctly) seemed to sit higher than normal, well normal to there sleeving procedure. they put the block in the oven with a head on it to see if the sleeves would drop some and they did little but he was still unsure about them since its really not there work, which is understandable. when i spoke to mike then, i told him just to do whatever needs to be done to make it right. they continued the assembly and got my block built and returned.

i went ahead and installed the head and motor into my car and had my tuner tune the motor (i wasnt there, i was at work at the moment). when i got it home and drove it around i noticed it was losing water on consistent bases but i wasnt seeing it on the oil dip stick. i must have put about 500-800 miles on it until i finally changed the oil and saw the water in it. i went ahead and changed my GE headgasket for another GE headgasket thinking that was the problem...it wasnt. i was still losing water. at this point i got in touch with laskey and spoke with mike and he suggested that i get a hold of ERL to see what they can do since they did the original work.



i sent ERL this photo and there tech said it look like a torque plate wasnt used when the motor was being assembled. im not sure if one was used or not but this is what they were telling me. ERL was able to rework the block and it was sent back with a new machine block guard along with there ERL stamp on the block. [this is the work they did when they got the motor: deck block and align hone]



i had my local machine shop that i trust reassemble the motor with new bearings and piston rings. this is the same shop that built my first stock sleeved motor in which i dropped a valve by over revving the motor



the motor today is still losing water and this after getting all this work done plus having the head pressure checked, head being resurfaced (.007 i believe that is how much they took off), buying new head gaskets [ 2 GE and 2 JE]. i do have a pressure tested i can put on my radiator to see how the water is getting in the block but at this point im some what tired of dealing with this block, if you know what i mean. im like if i see where its coming from...then what? water is getting mixed with the oil AND NOT the other way around. im see water in the head when i remove my valve gasket like i have posted before in a video

(before the head getting resurfaced and pressure check)

(after getting the work done, but saw water in the oil when i drained it and my tiny amount in the head.)
before i put fresh oil in the motor i put about 2 quarts of oil in the motor to try to get what ever amount of water that could have been in the oil pan. after i did that i put fresh oil in the motor and drove it about 8-10 miles then drained it and saw that there was indeed water back in the oil. these miles where not driven all in one day. i may have done 3-4 miles one day and filled the reservoir when i noticed it was losing water as well.

my tuner would like for me to remove the oil pan and get all the water out of it and try again. the amount of water i had to add to my reservoir would have filled it up if it was empty. to me i dont see the point of removing the oil to clean it and try again.

i ask the engine guru's what could be the problem with this motor. is the head or the block or both bad? hopefully i didnt leave out anything to confuse anyone but, damn it, i need some help because i desperately want to drive this car again and its been down for almost 3 years.

 

wait lol i missed that you said the block was 'decked' meaning resurfaced, my bad.

 

Is your turbo water cooled? Perhaps that's how the coolant is getting into your oil?

What's your oil cooling setup? Is it some fancy **** where it's incorporated into the radiator? Perhaps it's an internal leak within that unit?

Are all of your lines ran correctly? Maybe you've got a coolant line pumping coolant into your oil lol.

I don't get it. Shouldn't the coolant system operate at lower pressures than the oil system? I don't understand how it's pushing coolant into the oil unless you hadn't noticed that your coolant return was mixed up with your oil return or some such nonsense.

 

1. yes my turbo is water and oil cooled. i have a STC predator turbo

2. im not running any oil cooling system.

3. yes all the lines are ran correctly. i can provide some pics of behind the block tomorrow, but ill warn you it may not be pretty since the motor is in the car still.

4. i havent done anything different from this build than my previous. the only thing i really changed was the water pipe and i got rid of the hardline that goes from HAVC on the firewall.

 

I think you should check the turbo's coolant passages for damage if you're sure the coolant return line wasn't accidentally ran to the oil pan.

And check the cylinder head and block coolant jackets for damage. I mean, if its not the mating surface since both had been resurfaced, its not external, it's gotta be the engine casting yakno? I can't think of what else I might be and I can't tell if im forgetting something since im too tired to be working on cars right now tbfh

 

Dude if the coolant was directly entering the oil pan the car wouldnt run for more then 30 seconds without a huge mess lol. I think you are insulting his intelligence a little.

Sounds like the sleeves are still a problem. Do you have a catch can ?

 

Plus there are no coolant passages in the turbo. Just a surrounding water jacket surrounding the bearing housing. They wouldn't cause a problem.

I agree with LightningTeg.

 

even if the bearing housing had a crack in it?

also if the sleeves are the problem I would think you could see this in a leakdown test. OP have you ever done a leakdown?

 

i have a catch can. its a 6 port that i used on my last setup.

 

A bearing housing would be leaking from the outside and instantly burn on the exterior of the CHRA. Its self-contained and away from the turbine shaft and bearing system. The probability of that thick part of the bearing housing cracking is in the million-to-one kind of chance.

 

no i havent done a leak done since i got my motor back from ERL and assembled by my machinist. my machinist mentioned to me that the this block was done very nicely and one the best he has seen. but i would think ERL would check the sleeves before taking on the job since thats one thing they told me they had to do.

 

you on AIM?

 

Did you personally check for true flatness on the short block?

 

no sir, i dont own a mechanics straight edge. i believe this is another ill have to get in the future.

 

well a leakdown test could rule many things out if everything checks out OK. it not only tests the sleeves but also the head gasket and other components

they were pretty cheap on ebay last time i looked

if it passes a leak down if nothing else its good re-assurance that the block is fine and yuo can start looking elsewhere. If it does not pass it can be very helpful in pin pointing the problem

 

I was thinking about a cylinder leakage test and the block surface but he's mixing coolant with oil, without any mention of smoke. Although, a bad head gasket could easily hide behind the fuel smoke from a rich tune.

Honestly, my best guess after thinking about this all day is that the coolant is seeping between the sleeves and the block casting, from the fluid jacket to the oil pan. Probably from putting the block in an oven.

This wouldn't ever show up on a compression or leak down test because those test the combustion chamber seal and not the coolant jacket seal. I could call the engine machinist I use but I guarantee you he'd tell me this is one of the reasons he refuses to sleeve honda blocks.

 

sounds very logical

pull the pan and pressurize the cooling system?

 

Sounds like the best course of action.

 

yeah i had smoke in the past during this ordeal and i believe i some when i last drove it. white smoke as if its steam.

 

thats what my tuner suggested for me to do. to see if its coming out from the bottom

 

Not a bad idea

 

The sleeves are supposed to stick up, step-decked...But surely Mike knows this...
"more than normal"
Yeah, heating it very much can't be a good thing after they were installed, but again, I guess he is familiar with their blocks' characteristics?
Curious what exactly they did to it when u told em to fix it?
Looks like they may be dry type sleeves without o-rings, I couldn't find enuff info.
https://honda-tech.com/drag-racing-3...mance-2736568/
Did u pay for a re-sleeve? Was it step-decked when u got it back with the grooved block guard?
What a nightmare, sorry for u man. All that money and more trouble than a stock block.

 

i paid them to fix the block from the leak and inspect the block for usability. the other sad part about this block is that it sat at there shop for 3 months (90 days) until i got it back on christmas eve and it still has the same problems.

but to answer the question, i didnt pay for the block to be resleeved and im not sure if it was step decked. they went ahead a replaced the flat block guard to that machined groove block guard. they were suppose to compress the block to check for leaks but ill find out tomorrow if it leaks from the bottom of the block and into the oil pan.

 

I don't know what they could see in that photo, but are u sure that's what they said?
A torque plate isn't used during assembly, only for boring and honing.
It simulates the forces exerted to the block by a bolted-down head.


Damn, going from what you present, it's hard to believe these two respected businesses are handing you this much confusion.

Btw, I am not questioning ERL's or Mike Laskey's integrity, and Earl, we miss you.
Sometimes it's down to an individual in the shop with poor quality control. We're only getting one side here, after all.

I am wondering..
1. What did Laskey do after they questioned the sleeves? Why did they just go ahead and assemble and charge you?
(You were not clear if that was indeed the concern, If I recall, you typed "If I remember") Did they say sleeves were too high?
And then afterwards tell you to ask ERL what they can do? lol
I know what I'd say if someone was heating and pressing **** (and what else?) after I sleeved it, and then said it was my error?
2. What did ERL do to it when you shipped it to them? Their thread shows extensive processes.
Did they offer any evidence of a problem seen that would cause the coolant merge?
Did they remove the existing sleeves after whatever Laskey did/found? Or just install another block guard? So much mystery.
Damn, stressing me out just thinking about it. Good Luck