Kelly.

short background:
i took my motor to be assembled.
after i got it back, i broke it in for a few weeks and then boosted it (for 1 day). when i got it home it was knocking.
i pulled the oil pan off and both thrust washers were in the oil pan. i spun all the main bearings. it ruined all the pistons and one rod.

can anyone explain to me how thrust washers can fall out?
the owner of the shop says it is due to over heating, but there is no scorching on the thrust washer.
i want to know if tere is any other way this could of happened? assembly maybe?

please help me figure out how this could happened?
btw: here is a pic of one of the trust washers. the other one isnt this bad but is still bent and scratched.

thanks
kelly
if you have any questions please ask, i was kinda in a hurry typing this, so please understand, if there is more info needed just ask.

dfoxengr

assembly is definitely a factor, other than that howd you break it in. what kind of shop put the motor together, import or domestic, thats a big factor too. how much experience with honda motors did they have.

Kelly.

the shop that assembled it was SpeedImage in Denver.
they have build alot of honda motors. a few 10sec cars, a few 11 sec cars and a assload of 12 sec cars. i would think they know what they are doing?

as for breakin . i broke it in by gettin on it, but never revving over 5k. after ~25 miles i had 150 psi in all 4 cylinders. (with 9.0 std bore d16 at 5800ft up, i was told those number were amazing.)

could it be a breakin problem? there isnt a breakin period for thrust washers or bearings right?

thanks

X-cement-filled-EG-X

its a d-series. problem solved.
X-eric-X

Adriano

25 miles isn't really anything. You should of waited at least 500 miles.

Kelly.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by brryder &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">25 miles isn't really anything. You should of waited at least 500 miles. </TD></TR></TABLE>
for what?
never heard of anyone waiting that long for the rings to seat..

**** you eric (X-cement-X)

earl

From the looks of the bearing, my guess would be a lack of oil pressure. No matter how much or how soon you used the motor, that should not have happened. Did you use a new oil pump? Did the pump gear break? What rods did you use? Did you have enough oil in the pan? You have not given enough info to make a diagnosis. Would need all the clearance numbers, not just rods and mains clearance.

hybrid901

Its wasn't the break in. I let me motor idle @ 2k very lean, changed the oil, and then after 4 pulls made 620whp and have had no problems since. I would have to think its a oil issue because the bearing clearances would have to we way off for that to happen. Maybe a turned .10 crank with standard bearings but I doubt that. Did you get a build sheet?

Kelly.

Thanks Earl.
i agree, that it should not have happened, i am trying to find a way to prove it to the shop so that i can be compensated.
a new oem oil pump was used.
the oil pump is still good, there was metal shaving in the oil pick, more then likely from shavings and chunks for the thrust washer.
the rode were eagle rods, and the block was notched so do/did fit.
there was plently of 10w-30 in the pan.

hopefully this info will help further.
thanks again
kelly

Kelly.

no i didnt get a build sheet.

if there was aoiling issue, why? a used a new pump and had planty of oil.
the only time there was low oil is when the pick up was clogged with metal shavings. (from the thrust washers.)

servion

NOTE: On first startup of this motor, after driving ~25 miles, we got a vtec pressure code. We pulled off the vtec solenoid, and the screen was full of metal shavings. You could stick your pinky finger in there and pull out a glob of shavings.

The theory so far (at least between us and the shop) is that the thrust washers fell out first, and that caused the crank to shift which allowed all 5 mains to spin. Sound reasonable?

The owner of the shop is convinces that the only thing thatr would cause the turbst washers to fall out would be heat... if that's the case, the thrust washers would not be the stock color, correct? The other one (not pictured) is bent but not nearly as bad, and its still 100% stock colored (i.e., not scorched)

System-7

SOHC, there you go. sorry to here

rondigs

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by System-7 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">SOHC, there you go.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Whats the purpose of saying that. The guy is trying to solve a problem. Saying, "SOHC, there you go" is not adding anything constructive to the thread.

IntegracinGSR

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by System-7 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">SOHC, there you go. sorry to here</TD></TR></TABLE>

Now that this guys motor is ruined and is going to cost him another couple thousand dollars, im sure he appreciates your immature, unhelpful comments.. grow up and stop posting not useful information....

USDM 4G VTEC

IMO was a instalation issue
the thrust washers are hold in place by the bridge of the crank
IMO it was a miss assemble.... doesnt mean the shop doesnt do mistakes, but they can do mistakes or overlooked soemthhing... it takes a lottttt of heat to warp the bearings like that.. and just lack of clearance will not cause that.. IMO they got mis-assemble and they got pinch somewhere and with the engine runnign it got screwed

sporkcrx

How the hell can thrust washers fall out???

Kelly.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by USDM 4G VTEC &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">IMO was a instalation issue
the thrust washers are hold in place by the bridge of the crank
IMO it was a miss assemble...... it takes a lottttt of heat to warp the bearings like that.. and just lack of clearance will not cause that..
</TD></TR></TABLE>
im not understanding what your sayin?
are you sayin it was from lack of clearences and heat?
not tryin to be a smart ***, just tryin to understand more.
thanks
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
IMO they got mis-assemble and they got pinch somewhere and with the engine runnign it got screwed
</TD></TR></TABLE>
he said when it was totally assembled he turned it and it rotated "smoothly"
is there a possiblity that he missed something.

if needed i can take pics of the stuff if it will help.
if you want pics, just let me know what pics would help.

thanks guys.

and to System-7. thanks for your help
the only reason i let eric get away with it, is cuz he has helped me through the whole process, as did servion. both are good guys, but they give me the b series pitch everyday SOHC for life

omahaturbocivic

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sporkcrx &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">How the hell can thrust washers fall out???</TD></TR></TABLE>
Thats what I dont get either. The Crank must be super worn for them to get past the crank and work their way out. I was wondering if installing them backwards with the indentions facing the away from the crank could cause an oiling problem that would result in this.

Kelly.

i dont think that they can be put in backwards. can they?
i thought they were grooved?

dennis

They could physically go in backwards. The grooves don't mate with another set of grooves (if that makes any sense)

omahaturbocivic

They have grooves on one side but can be set in there either way. When I assembled my built d16z6 I had to look up which way they went in.

Kelly.

it would be retty noticable though right?
i cant believe that some that has built motors before would do this, or not notice this.


if this was the case would that cause them to drop?

omahaturbocivic

I dont think it would be necessarily noticable, they fit the same either way except one side has grooves. I figured the grooves were obviously there for a reason so I had to look up which way they went because it was not obvious to me, I have never built an engine that used thrust washers instead of thrust bearings though so it was new to me.

tegedrex

[
and to System-7. thanks for your help
the only reason i let eric get away with it, is cuz he has helped me through the whole process, as did servion. both are good guys, but they give me the b series pitch everyday SOHC for life [/QUOTE]


Whats up no love I helped with the head last time around I told you SI was shaddy.. I know everyhting will turn out alright.

Btw I need to put some ARP's in tomm

Kelly.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Whats up no love I helped with the head last time around I told you SI was shaddy.. I know everyhting will turn out alright.

Btw I need to put some ARP's in tomm</TD></TR></TABLE>

my fault.
donald did help me alot too. he is the one that laughed at me when i slid the oil pan out from under the car (he saw the thrust washer in the pan, and laughed)

call me when you wanna start tomorrow, i need to swap a teg suspension and swap my accor suspension too, but im down to help.

anyone have any other ideas?
thanks for all those who have helped this far.