Muckman

iTrader: (2)

I have a major air flow problem with my GSR, or lack of. My engine bay temps are through the roof! I installed a temp gauge mounted between my ex manifold and distributor. Im at 285*F while cruising at highway speeds! Thats hot enough to cook 2 ignition coils after about an hour each.

That was last summer. Since then Ive had my manifold ceramic coated and upgraded to the MSD Pro-Billet Dist with the external coil mounted on the fenderwall, further away from the heat source.

The ceramic coating did next to nothing. Engine bay temps are still in the 280 range. Ive tried the rear hood prop gayness but that only lowered temps 10 degrees. I also proped the front of the hood about 1/4". Engine bay temps are still 260*+ but its hard to tell if these tricks are actually making a difference as ambient temps and driving conditions can vary each time. I limit myself to 15 min drives until I have this fixed.

I needed a baseline so I preformed the same test on my DD, a stock 91 teg. At highway speed it was 85*F. The hottest I could get it up to was 115* and that was doing a WOT brake stand in 2nd gear for 30secs to load it up at slow speed. I found the temps were inversly proportional to vehicle speed. My GSR temps are not affected by vehicle speed at all, indicating a lack of airflow. My goal is to get the temps under 180*.

Anyone have any advice?

*Cliff notes: engine bay ridiculously hot. lack of air flow seems to be culprit. have real world data to measure improvements made by various methods. looking for tips to improve air flow.

blinx9900

did you ceramic coat the turbine housing? that thing generates tons of heat! a turbo blanket would be even better though What type of fan are you using? Pics of said engine bay?

tony413

vent your fenders or do the vented hood mod and try again

Muckman

iTrader: (2)

Yeah I had everything ceramic coated -the manifold, dumptube, downpipe and turbine housing.
Tony413 - How would one vent the fender since its not exposed to the engine bay? You make it seem so trival.

Heres some info on my setup: https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=2346412

*Precision 750 FMIC
*AC Condensor
*Two 12" generic slim fans mounted on the condensor as pushers (I could upgrade the fans but at highway speeds it shouldnt be a factor)
*Custom 3/4 width, dual pass aluminum radiator





Just to be clear here, coolant temps are fine. The engine is not overheating. Fans are coming on. EGTs are 1250*F max.

*Im willing to upgrade to a more hardcore ceramic coating and/or wrap it but I seriously doubt that will make a significant difference.
*Im willing to upgrade to a vented hood but Im having a hard time finding a hood that doesnt look like a ricey pos. I think a vented hood is the best solution.
*Id like to try some aero tips if anyone has em. Perhaps something like the Corvette air dam. Right now my front grill is 100% occupied by my FMIC so there is no space left for any kind of ducting.

tony413

RICED to all hell but you get the point and i wasnt tring to be an ***

Muckman

iTrader: (2)

hehe yeah I knew what you meant but still wouldn't help vent air from the engine bay as the area behind the fender is not open to the engine bay, unless I hack some serious metal off my chasis.

Ive bee looking at vented hoods too but everything for the civic/integra is riced out. I want something clean looking with a louver.

tony413

try using brake ducts and then using something to funnel them to face the hot areas




you may also have some other options

hugh *** pic removed by request of muckman


Modified by tony413 at 1:16 PM 7/27/2008

blinx9900

tony413 i hope your joking, as said that would do nothing and surely you dont expect this man to cut his engine bay open

OP i believe the problem is how close the collector is to your dizzy/coil, have you tried building a headshield or wrapping it (coil) in that Gold reflective tape?

I am assuming your only concern with the head is the coil/dizzy?

tony413

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by blinx9900 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">tony413 i hope your joking, as said that would do nothing and surely you dont expect this man to cut his engine bay open

OP i believe the problem is how close the collector is to your dizzy/coil, have you tried building a headshield or wrapping it (coil) in that Gold reflective tape?

I am assuming your only concern with the head is the coil/dizzy?</TD></TR></TABLE>

yes, but the brake ducts will work just fine as long as the car is rolling.

blinx9900

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tony413 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

yes, but the brake ducts will work just fine as long as the car is rolling. </TD></TR></TABLE>

what? I'm talking about the damn fenders! And was it really necessary to post 1920x1080 images of a god damn duct? In fact please just stop posting picutres, its not really needed int his thread. we all know what ducting and brake ducts look like...

tepid1

Looks like your radiator and two fans is blocking all the air flow.

Are you still using the black lower plastic that goes under the front of the motor?

blinx9900

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tepid1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Are you still using the black lower plastic that goes under the front of the motor?</TD></TR></TABLE>

why does that help? i always wondered, i personally dont have it...

and Muckman those are some BEAUTIFUL radiator lines!!!!

tepid1

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by blinx9900 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

why does that help? i always wondered, i personally dont have it...

and Muckman those are some BEAUTIFUL radiator lines!!!!</TD></TR></TABLE>

I don't feel as though it helps, but that is my opinion.

I was just curious. The rest of the car looked original so I figured I'd ask.

dbiker207

i think your problem is with the hole in the front bumper. i was having similar issues with my crx. i finally took the bumper off and cut the plastic that goes from the front face of the bumper to the intercooler, to allow more air to go around the intercooler and get to the radiator. this fixed my problem. try taking the bumper off and go for a ride to see if it helps.

hotrod99

of course its going to make a difference with the bumper all the way off,but i dont think that cutting the plastic from the front bumper is going to do much of anything

hotrod99

i think your best bet would be to vent the hood somehow or try a different kind of coating if they even make a more hardcore coating.

96 GSR-T

I dont think coatings do as well of a job as a wrap, I have put my hands near manifolds that were coated and they were still hot as hell, they just looked better. My hood was stovetop hot when I was driving around without and wrap on my manifold and I already had an additional large opening across the face of my bumper to allow extra air in, so I bought a DEI wrap kit with the insulating paint and after I can hover my hand 1/8" off the manifold after a long drive and I can barely feel the heat, and my hood is not smoldering anymore, IMO it made a considerable difference. I also wrapped the DP and DT while I was at it, the kit had 2 50' rolls and enough paint for both of them for about $100. I see alot of wrapped manny's and they look real loose and sloppy, I was tugging with everything I had to get mine as tight as possible with a nice even overlap and I think that made the difference.

JRSC01GS-R

I have read a lot of these threads, and have seen a lot of band aid fixes. imo the best solution is to wrap the **** out of everything and hope for the best.

If u are serious about the vented hood idea, the hot rodders have been adding louvers for years, and if done correctly it actually looks pretty cool.




here is a link to the first site i found when i did a google search http://hotrodlouvers.com/

seems he charges $1.50 per louver and wants the hood to be bare metal

rorik

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Muckman &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Anyone have any advice?

</TD></TR></TABLE>

Well, I don't know if I have any advice, but here goes..when I first checked yout your setup in your other thread, I wondered why you chose to go with the sidewinder style manifold over the other popular styles. I do like the sidewinder style, I know it creates excellent wastegate flow for boost control and looks unique, but I think because the manifold goes along the engine compartment sideways right in the airflow path from the front and has a lot of surface area, it adds more heat to everything. Just out of curiosity, how much surface area does your manifold have vs a typical ramhorn?

Might be a dumb question, but when you coated your manifold, did you coat the inside of the tubes also? I guess your manifold, being 321, (if I remember correctly from your other post?), could take it if you only coated the outside, but I wouldn't do that..

I would say your only real option is to vent your hood. By placing a vent in the hood in a low pressure area, (coincidentally basically right above the manifold) the air will flow up and out through that opening at speed. (pulling more air through your radiator/intercooler too. ) When the car is sitting without the cooling fans on, the air will naturally convect up through the vent too. The cooling fans coming on around town is the situation when the bay will get the hottest, but it will still be far cooler than without the vent.
The only thing that sucks about the vent is rain hitting the manifold and steaming off, but it doesn't do that when the car is moving.

Raising the rear of the hood does the opposite, it's how cowl induction works. The rear of the hood/base of the windshield is a high pressure area, air will try to enter the engine compartment from that area at speed. Since the difference in pressure between the front of the car and the engine bay helps pull air through the radiator/intercooler at speed, I would not reduce this pressure differential by raising the back of the hood.

The hood vent on my project car is just a mesh welded in place across a cut out, but I think if properly done, a hood vent can look good, not "riced out" at all. We might have a different opinion on that though.. you mentioned louvers, I'd leave that style to the the 1970s..and I like the first gen evo hood.

Muckman

iTrader: (2)

Rorik - yes its only coated outside. Jet-Hot recommended against coating inside as it could come off and damage the turbo. And even though mine is already burning off from the hotspot at the collector, I dont think it would be big enough to hurt anything. And your right my manifold has alot of surface area compared to a ram horn. But Ive also seen threads of ram horn users with the same problem. Some so bad they burnt he paint off their hoods.

JRSC01GS-R - I like the idea of a big louver, I think it would be more effective and look better. Does anyone have any real data from before and after a vented hood?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...l1318

I love this hood as the louver below the surface of the hood but it only comes for JDM front end

96 GSR-T - the coating made a big difference with the pipe skin temps. I can idle the car up to full temp and you can physically touch the runners for a few seconds before it hurts. Not instant skin melting you'd expect. Obviously not enough to prevent my problem.

tepid1 - No I am not using the black plastic peice under the radiator. I think it kind of acts like an engine bay tray. Ive been wondering if an aftermarket tray would help or hurt my situation as you have entering the front, air entering from the rear of the hood now, it has to go somewhere. I think down is the only place it can go.

blinx9900 - lol about the pic and yes I could do a heatshield to protect the distributor sure. But I dont know what else would start to fail. I've read OEMs try to keep engine bay temps below 180* as beyond that parts start to fail. So thats my goal.

tony413

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tepid1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Are you still using the black lower plastic that goes under the front of the motor?</TD></TR></TABLE>

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by blinx9900 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

why does that help? i always wondered, i personally dont have it...
</TD></TR></TABLE>


yes it does help the purpose of that strip is to cause air to flow into the engine instead of just passing underneath the car and not into the engine bay.

whether it has a big enough effect on a turbo car, i dont know but usually production turbo cars still have that same long black strip, so i guess it works well enough for them.

rorik

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Muckman &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> Does anyone have any real data from before and after a vented hood?
</TD></TR></TABLE>

I didn't measure anything with any type of guage or sensor, but when you feel the the intake manifold, charge piping, hoses, wiring, whatever, you can tell there's a big, if not huge, diffierence in temp overall. When you open the hood on a hot day, you just don't get that same big draft of hot air in your face. You can feel the temp difference on the hood itself too. I think all turbo cars without oem type heat shields or oem type designs should have vented hoods. Esp one with so much surface area on the manifold.

quicksilver1689

i think the sidewinder has alot to do with the high temps, when you think about it, its acting like a huge heating element, that thing has alot of surface area and is saturating the engine bay with heat. maybe some work on channeling the air into the bay could help, like schrouds almost, maybe alot of the air is escaping before it goes hrough the engine bay. Just some thoughts, good luck keep us posted.

BigMoose

You probably know this but your front license plate is not helping. Do the calculation on how much of the open area it is blocking... Next is the bumper plastic on the top side touching the intercooler? You've got to open up the front and drive more air in. High pressure in front, low pressure under the belly to suck air in then out. A nice NASCAR splitter up front would help too! &lt;&lt;&lt; I'm going to get killed for saying that, I bet...

Muckman

iTrader: (2)

Yeah man Im all for it. I was considering the "GM air dam" if it would help. I tested removing the lic plate, not a big diff in engine bay temp or intake temps.

And yes the bumper does touch the FMIC


I agree with quicksilver. I think a vented hood is the best solution here. Its just really hard to find a hood for an integra that isnt a ricey pos. I really like the one I posted above but its not made for the USDM front.