which do you prefer an pro's and con's about both.

 

e85 its cheaper. cons you need more fuel system then you would for c16 on high hp cars.

 

yea im lookin 2 make 700-750 with a turbo b20 unsure of what fuel system 1600cc with external weldon pump or 1600cc with dual in-tank walbros 255 i also heard that i have 2 run a higher cc injector like 1800 or so for e85.

 

lol......

I personally run E85. I think it really comes down to power goals and availability. If your going to run hp levels that just plainly exceed pump gas, then it's probably more cost effective to run race gas.

E85 is nice if your flirting with race gas type hp numbers but want to have a margin of safety. I got roughly 18mpg on E85. Like stated, you use more fuel by volume with E85, so your fuel system is limited on what it can support versus race gas. E85 torque is nice, and it really dropped my spool time a good bit (GT3082R with LS/vtec).

It really comes down to a balance of the factors involved.

 

I'm planning on running e85 when my car's finished. My decision came down to availability and price. If you have an e85 station nearby it's a no brainer. There is one located on Hallandale Bch Blvd just east of 95.

Location: poopfacepartytime, ca, usa

 

what needs to be change in a fuel system to run e85 as a dd?

 

depends on power you want. I changed nothing. besides the ID-1000's I can swithc between both fuels with ease

 

OP for most it's going to be price.

me E85 is 2 miles from me and i can get about 250 to a tank depending on how im driving.

if i ever do a race gas tune it will be Q and E85 as daily

 

x2

You would need a serious fuel system to run 700+ on E85.

I think the deciding factor for me was that I still wanted my car streetable. Racegas would be way too high to be able to cruise around on the street.

I just looked at the variables. You can spend a little more initially for the fuel pumps & injectors or spend a lot everytime you take it out or go to the track. No-brainer for me.

 

I am considering using E85 to make 700+ this year, but if I do I am going to use 8 1000's and all that other crap, possibly a Weldon pump or dual Bosch's. My only reason for doing it on E85 at that power level is for the ease of it, its located right next to my house and I will never need to drain my tank and change tunes. I will also be running the AEM EMS this year and if I can come across a flex sensor cheap I plan to implement that into my EMS and allow the computer to adjust my fuel trim based on the Ethanol Content so there is no worry about going lean on a bad mixture.

One concern I have is will my ignition system be able to fire off that large amount of fuel being injected in the 700hp/10k rpm range w/o issues.

 

10k rpms and 8 injectors is a sh*t ton of corn. What ignition are you running plus I wonder if you would need to get a different type of spark plug for those numbers special if you are going to dd.

I know this I love E85 it's the best thing to happen for some one that wants to make power and not have to give up your first born to race.

 

I love e85 because the ease of getting it.Less then 5 minutes from my house there is an e85 station and I get points off food for buying it at giant eagle.

 

dont run a cellulose type filter with e85. or you can but will be chaning them out periodically.

 

Well if my funds work out the ID1000's. The only reason why I want to use 8 is I refuse to use 1600's my car is a street car, and the 1600's are just garbage on the street. Jeff Evans is supposed to release an affordable COP package some time this year, hoping that will suffice for igniting it all. I am just wondering if dual 044's are up to the task of 100psi base through 8 Injectors.

 

looking to make around 400-450 on e85. i was just thinking about getting a chip switch and just get it retune on e85. will that be all i need?

 

True 1600cc injectors do suck. What program with the COP work with plus why would you want to push the 044's to 100psi is that what you need for the ID1000 I don't think you would need that much psi for 7ish power range would you? You couldn't get it done in the 60-70 psi b/c I made on just 4 1000cc injector 450whp at 45psi of fuel.

 

Good point didnt think of that, I dont need to run 100psi base. I wonder if the atomization and spray patterns change at different fuel pressures with the ID1000's.

 

^^^ I would think so thats why tony and some of those other guy's are pushing them b/c of the power they keep getting out of them. That gsr motor you have will be fine I bet if you get it tuned right. Sh*t you are running a t67 and I was on a sc34 at 18psi when I made 450 So I could just imagin when you get into that turbo at 30psi you should be good! Sorry to total get off topic in this thread.

 

Comparing E-85 and C16 are apples and oranges.

And anyone basing the performance of E85 on its octane rating is not looking at the big picture. Alcohol/Methanol/Ethanol fuels cannot be compared to regular fuels based on its octane rating (which is about 107-113 fyi). These fuels contain the most important factor when it comes to knock suppressant, its cooling properties.
Cooling effects play a much larger role and is more important than octane rating from my experience. I've seen many different types of lower octane fuels that have greater cooling properties perform better than higher octane fuels with less cooling properties.
Very high compression two stroke racing is proof of that. Any application where a lot of combustion heat is present (positive intake air pressure in this case) fuels that have the greatest effect on cooling the combustion temps, are going to perform the best.

I also can say it's probably the most consistent fuel I've used and the results show that.

-J

 

Brings up alot of good points about the added benefits of alcohols as opposed to standard race gas besides the octane rating.

The highlighted point is my biggest concern with e85 honestly, I dont know if I can trust the pumps to be consistant in mixing this stuff. Make me nervous how much we put into building up cars to risk it on the pumps blending it correctly when pumping. I am at a crossroads for this reason with do I continue to pay 6-10$ a gallon for race gas (depending on the grade) or do I pump 1.65$ a gallon e85 into fuel jugs to test every time I put some in my car to protect my investment.

 

Unlike "regular" pump gas, E85 is not "mixed" at the station. The other good thing is if it were to be "mixed" improperly it really won’t be as bad as you might think. With up to 87% ethanol by volume, even if it were mixed as much as 25% off, that means you would still have around 66% ethanol. Now that REALLY isn't the way to be thinking but it is a plus. Really it boils down to monitoring EGT, knock and wideband readings before any ***** to the wall run. I am ALWAYS checking and double checking everything no matter what the fuel is. When we're talking about making 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 or 9 times the OEM power output, monitoring, logging and tuning need to be taken serious. There is a bigger picture here but you get the point. All in all, I have really come to trust the consistency of E85 and still amazes me.

More importantly C16, Q16 and most other race fuels are all "band-aids" for a "knock suppressant". The reason, is that the fuel is not fixing the root cause of knock, rather it's prolonging it by burning "slower". The two biggest causes of knock are: Heat and combustion chamber shape/flow/efficiency. With "race gas" those two issues do not change. BUT, on the other hand, if intake air is hot going into the combustion chamber and you’re running an Alcohol/Methanol/Ethanol type fuel (E85) then the heat issue is removed. It is a SOLUTION not a band-aid. The combustion chamber is another topic for another time. And fyi, I am in no way saying that conventional "race gases don't work, because they do. But I don't like the way they go about "working".

-J

 

Gorilla,


EXCELLENT

you are a new user but not new to good tech info. I may merge this thread but i kinda want to keep it seperate for searching.

Giid info

 

Thank you for your kind words. I'm hear to learn and to help as much as my little brain will allow me to

Ha I was actually a member here many many years ago but I forgot my password and never really posted so...ehh. So I see you run E85 yourself?! Nice, how do you like it?

-J

 

Interesting... I was under the impression that it was mixed at the pump, that way they were not pumping out the e85 then pump back in e70 in late fall if your in a colder climate or visa versa in the spring.

 

I think there is some sort of fed law that prevents retailers from mixing fuels onsite or something of that nature, my station origionaly told me they mixed onsite but they dont know anything about their fuel, they swore to me I was pumping E85 when I went to get tuned in December after I asked them multiple times and they kept telling me "summer blend" and I found out months later in the summer that it was E70 when I was lean as hell throught my whole map, roughly +5% fuel put me right back on track with AFR.