adubaz7

I am just about ready for a trip to the dyno my setup is almost compete and I want to use E85 for my setup but I know with E85 you have to add more fuel for same horsepower but do you still tune for the same a/f ratio. Meaning that if my target a/f was to be at 12.0/1 with 110 race gas will the same stay true with E85, tune for the same 12.0/1 or should I tune for 11/1 or 13/1 I believe it should be the same but before I go to the dyno I just wanted to make sure. I asume that I should still tune for the same 12.0/1 just it will take more duty cycle to get to that same 12.0 is this correct

also is there anything else I need to consider when using E85

ABK

some people say 11:1 AFR. More fuel make sure that you injectors are big enough and you fuel pump can keep up.

adubaz7

yep injectors are fine and pump should work has anyone else used it tuned with it

.dave

Can your O2 sensor read in lambda values? Those should be the same, but the AFR will be different.

Good reading: http://www.techedge.com.au/veh...a.htm

SwappedTURBOegg

yea you want it in the low 9s 11 is way lean

JDMisGOOD

Let your tuner handle it. He or she should know what they are doing. Just tune it in lamda.

Redwidow

I'm not sure who tunes in AZ with E85, I was planning on doing E85 and having SERVION come handle it but its still a thought in my mind hmm maybe another time good luck and let me know what your outcome is

tony413

meth stoich is around 8:1 or 9:1 AFR but anyways tune in lamba which was suggested if your gonna tune lamba look for around .85

96 GSR-T

Tune to AFR in the low 9's, you have to do it in Lamda since AF gagues dont read that low. think cruising is in the mid 11's/.

nowtype

Search. All the answers in this thread are bad/wrong. In other threads the topic is covered adequately.

HINTs:
AFR Gasoline / 14.7 * stoich of E85 = E85 AFR

Ethanol cools combustion quite a bit more than gasoline.

.dave

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nowtype &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Search. All the answers in this thread are bad/wrong. In other threads the topic is covered adequately.

HINTs:
AFR Gasoline / 14.7 * stoich of E85 = E85 AFR

Ethanol cools combustion quite a bit more than gasoline.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Read the the link I posted.

nowtype

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .dave &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Read the the link I posted. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Congratulations on posting a link that is very hardware specific. Also does not mention how to get to convert from AFR to lambda to Ethanol AFR. It also does not mention anything about ethanol. So yes, it has a bit of information for general use, but most of it is TechEdge hardware specific. So congrats. Take that hammer and hit yourself in the forehead with it dumb dumb.

.dave

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nowtype &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Congratulations on posting a link that is very hardware specific. Also does not mention how to get to convert from AFR to lambda to Ethanol AFR. It also does not mention anything about ethanol. So yes, it has a bit of information for general use, but most of it is TechEdge hardware specific. So congrats. Take that hammer and hit yourself in the forehead with it dumb dumb.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I saw a table that had the equivalent values for ethanol, but I don't have that link or I would've posted that to begin with. One would assume that looking at that table, all you would have to do was find one that included ethanol as well, but maybe I assume too much about the ability of the original poster.

evokidvii

E85 motors should be around 9.5 to 10.0

david@didrace.com

It's pretty simple. Just don't touch the wideband and tune to your normal air fuel ratios. All widebands are lambda sensors and take a lambda value and the assumption that you're running gasoline and calculate an air fuel ratio to display.

If you're at 1 Lambda with gasoline it'll display 14.7 and if you're at Lambda 1 with E85 it'll display 14.7.

93supercoupe

I would doubt that the lower model widebands dont have the capability to change lambda.

I think they are programmed speciificly for gasoling ratio's.

servion

But they all read in lambda and then convert to a/f ratio

nowtype

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by david@didrace.com &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">It's pretty simple. Just don't touch the wideband and tune to your normal air fuel ratios. All widebands are lambda sensors and take a lambda value and the assumption that you're running gasoline and calculate an air fuel ratio to display.

If you're at 1 Lambda with gasoline it'll display 14.7 and if you're at Lambda 1 with E85 it'll display 14.7. </TD></TR></TABLE>

The only probably with this method is the fact that E85 you might not want to target the same AFRs.

Example. Max Rich Power with gasoline is about 12.5:1. Convert that to lambda that is 0.85 lambda. Now multiply that by 9.765(E85's stoich) and you get 8.30025 AFR. Thats closer to the max lean AFR than the max rich AFR for E85. So your margin of errors could be off if you don't understand this. Luckily your engine runs cooler with E85 so you have a larger margin of error and most don't run 12.5:1 but richer so you are still safe, but people should still understand E85's various characteristics and how it works before simply following your advice. I will say if one follows your advice most likely they won't run into any problems though.

Souce: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E...gines

bigbadboy

look just tune it for the SAME A/F nothing changes but the duty cycle. all this about tuning to 8:1 and bla bla bla. its crap 11.5 is good to be safe and make power whether ur on C16 or E85. widebands read in Lambda value and then convert over to A/F. so with that said just go and get tuned and don't worry abt it. if your tuner doesn't know just tell him to tune the same A/F for 93/110 and E85. Also E85 requires a lot of timing like C16. you'll love it just make sure ur injectors are big enough for the power level that you want............. and it smells like heaven

servion

Heaven smells like grapes?

adubaz7

thank you guys for all the input I ended up finding alot more posts for E85 and now that I see how easy it is to tune with I will definitly be using it

does anyone know if more E85 fuel stations are in the works or are they not going well

david@didrace.com

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by servion &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Heaven smells like grapes? </TD></TR></TABLE>

More like tacos.

Redwidow

Tucson is your only hope. A lot of politics holding it from PHX.. get a 55gal throw it in a truck and head East

tony413

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nowtype &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

The only probably with this method is the fact that E85 you might not want to target the same AFRs.

Example. Max Rich Power with gasoline is about 12.5:1. Convert that to lambda that is 0.85 lambda. Now multiply that by 9.765(E85's stoich) and you get 8.30025 AFR. Thats closer to the max lean AFR than the max rich AFR for E85. So your margin of errors could be off if you don't understand this. Luckily your engine runs cooler with E85 so you have a larger margin of error and most don't run 12.5:1 but richer so you are still safe, but people should still understand E85's various characteristics and how it works before simply following your advice. I will say if one follows your advice most likely they won't run into any problems though.

Souce: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E...gines</TD></TR></TABLE>

after calling everyone wrong you still said the saidthing i said before you

nowtype

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tony413 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

after calling everyone wrong you still said the saidthing i said before you </TD></TR></TABLE>

Note: I'm in a pissed off mood so read through the profanity and name calling.

Assfuck, if you were half way literate you'd notice I did not agree with you. You say tune for .85 lambda. Guess what, thats damn close to the max lean AFR for E85. Some people prefer to be closer to the max rich AFR. In which case they are far too lean. If you read the next two sentences after what you bolded, I clearly stated that. So learn to read carefully before you start questioning what I said.