is dyno tuning really necessary?
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From: Boise, Idaho
Re: (93turbo16)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 93turbo16 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I think most of the people that actually tune cars agree with you in this thread. I probably would've handled it the exact same way. I like to street tune cars, and then if they want dyno time, then that is their call.
But I do refuse to street tune anything that is over 350 whp. It is pointless, that is the only time I full encourage dyno tuning.</TD></TR></TABLE>
thanks, and i agree with you one the higher hp cars...and i told him that too. trying to street tune a car that blows the tires off in 3rd, is pointless and dangerous at the same time. those cars i dyno tune first for wot, and then street tune after for drivability (part throttle/cruising).
all in all its the customers call...i am more than capable of doing anything he might ask me to do...show me the money and ill be your bitch lol
But I do refuse to street tune anything that is over 350 whp. It is pointless, that is the only time I full encourage dyno tuning.</TD></TR></TABLE>
thanks, and i agree with you one the higher hp cars...and i told him that too. trying to street tune a car that blows the tires off in 3rd, is pointless and dangerous at the same time. those cars i dyno tune first for wot, and then street tune after for drivability (part throttle/cruising). all in all its the customers call...i am more than capable of doing anything he might ask me to do...show me the money and ill be your bitch lol
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From: northern, va
Re: is dyno tuning really necessary? (93turbo16)
I read the topic & post and I guess I took it literally. dyno tuning for numbers, street tuning for drivabilty my bad. they both will have the almost the same outcome but only dyno tuning gets the numbers of course...
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How about the opposite...for a basic setup ~250whp, is only a dyno tune better than street+dyno? I ask because it seems that street tuning can work out soe of the partial throttle bugs and such...or is a dyno only tune just fine?
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From: 92127
Re: (aaroboost)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by aaroboost »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">How about the opposite...for a basic setup ~250whp, is only a dyno tune better than street+dyno? I ask because it seems that street tuning can work out soe of the partial throttle bugs and such...or is a dyno only tune just fine?</TD></TR></TABLE>
It depends on the Dyno being used, but I generally say no. I prefer to do the initial tune on real world loads that the vehicle will only ever see on the street. Then go over the timing and possible cam gear adjustments on the dyno.
The following pictures are the map from a customer's car that I was unavailable to tune, so he went to another "reputable" tuner. His engine melted all four 9.5:1 84mm bore CP pistons on the way home from the dyno session.
low cam fuel
low cam timing
VTEC fuel
VTEC timing
Notice how uneven the maps are. There was not enough load on the engine to cause audible detonation, so this tuner didn't retard the timing in boost properly. Also the fuel values were way off. Once he hit the freeway, I would assume it was 13:1 to 13.5:1 in boost based on comparisons with my original tune for his car.
It depends on the Dyno being used, but I generally say no. I prefer to do the initial tune on real world loads that the vehicle will only ever see on the street. Then go over the timing and possible cam gear adjustments on the dyno.
The following pictures are the map from a customer's car that I was unavailable to tune, so he went to another "reputable" tuner. His engine melted all four 9.5:1 84mm bore CP pistons on the way home from the dyno session.
low cam fuel
low cam timing
VTEC fuel
VTEC timing
Notice how uneven the maps are. There was not enough load on the engine to cause audible detonation, so this tuner didn't retard the timing in boost properly. Also the fuel values were way off. Once he hit the freeway, I would assume it was 13:1 to 13.5:1 in boost based on comparisons with my original tune for his car.
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Re: is dyno tuning really necessary? (fast2camciv)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by fast2camciv »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">ok, guess its time for me to chime in here....I AM THE TUNER.
this is what i suggested to civicdxtyper...street tune the car for sure. i can nail down the a/f's and set timing somewhat conservative, set the car up for driveability, and reliability. and it was up to him we could dyno tune it as well, after the street tune. and yes i told him that really the only thing that needs done on the dyno is timing, and vtec crossover (we all know that there is more than that, but with a good street tune, those things are the main points, the rest is just cleanup)
do i recomend a dyno tune for what he wants? meh, its really up to him, im 100% confident his car will be in top running condition after a street tune, if he is after that last 10whp from a dyno tune (wich it sounds like he is) then so be it, we can do it. but in my honest opinion a 250-300whp stock block gsr setup, street tuning is more than enough (if done by someone that knows wtf there doing)...is that last 10whp worth the 300 bucks he's going to pay for a dyno tune??? depends...my money is better spent elswhere but different strokes for different folks...if he wants it dyno tuned, ill do it and ill get every last whp i can out of it too.
so to bash on me and say he needs a new tuner is pretty harsh. i have my opinions about what cars and when a car needs dyno tuned (just as everyone does), but thats just my opinion....he asked for my opinion and i gave it to him...if he wants me to dyno tune it, then so be it....its his money he can spend it how he wants...and regardless of where i tune it, i will do the best job i possibly can in order to make him happy.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
haha how the hell did you know it was me? anyway, i think if you could get a little more power from a dyno tune then it's probably worth it. plus, i would want to dyno it anyway, just to see what the power band looks like. this is my first time doing a turbo (actually first turbo'd car i've ever driven) so it's all new to me. plus i want a dyno graph to show off to friends .
this is what i suggested to civicdxtyper...street tune the car for sure. i can nail down the a/f's and set timing somewhat conservative, set the car up for driveability, and reliability. and it was up to him we could dyno tune it as well, after the street tune. and yes i told him that really the only thing that needs done on the dyno is timing, and vtec crossover (we all know that there is more than that, but with a good street tune, those things are the main points, the rest is just cleanup)
do i recomend a dyno tune for what he wants? meh, its really up to him, im 100% confident his car will be in top running condition after a street tune, if he is after that last 10whp from a dyno tune (wich it sounds like he is) then so be it, we can do it. but in my honest opinion a 250-300whp stock block gsr setup, street tuning is more than enough (if done by someone that knows wtf there doing)...is that last 10whp worth the 300 bucks he's going to pay for a dyno tune??? depends...my money is better spent elswhere but different strokes for different folks...if he wants it dyno tuned, ill do it and ill get every last whp i can out of it too.
so to bash on me and say he needs a new tuner is pretty harsh. i have my opinions about what cars and when a car needs dyno tuned (just as everyone does), but thats just my opinion....he asked for my opinion and i gave it to him...if he wants me to dyno tune it, then so be it....its his money he can spend it how he wants...and regardless of where i tune it, i will do the best job i possibly can in order to make him happy.
</TD></TR></TABLE>haha how the hell did you know it was me? anyway, i think if you could get a little more power from a dyno tune then it's probably worth it. plus, i would want to dyno it anyway, just to see what the power band looks like. this is my first time doing a turbo (actually first turbo'd car i've ever driven) so it's all new to me. plus i want a dyno graph to show off to friends
.
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From: b00sting my D16s, SoWis, USA
Re: (Jim Truett)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by fast2camciv »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">ok, guess its time for me to chime in here....I AM THE TUNER.</TD></TR></TABLE>
OMG f2cc FTL! j/k
Its true you can't beat a street tune (at least, realistic loads you'll see) for AFR's. The dyno is best for seeing what different adjustments change what, such as vtec x-over. The other thing is IAT's. If you have 4 blowers on an open engine bay and let it cool down between runs, you won't be able to adjust it for high IAT's.
Assuming you get traction, a street tune should go hand-in-hand with a dyno tune. As for the 4th-gear burnout cars, good rubber and a track will help out a lot. Most cars see the top of 4th near the 1320 mark, so that means a full 3rd gear pull or a partial 4th gear. If you balk at the cost of rubber, you can get a new lenso+M&H set for the same price as a long dyno session.
The main thing to look out for is agressive timing. A street car rarely needs to be on the knife-edge of detonation, especially considering the variations of pump gas. Hell, there's even a difference between filling up in the morning and evening from the same place.
OMG f2cc FTL! j/k
Its true you can't beat a street tune (at least, realistic loads you'll see) for AFR's. The dyno is best for seeing what different adjustments change what, such as vtec x-over. The other thing is IAT's. If you have 4 blowers on an open engine bay and let it cool down between runs, you won't be able to adjust it for high IAT's.
Assuming you get traction, a street tune should go hand-in-hand with a dyno tune. As for the 4th-gear burnout cars, good rubber and a track will help out a lot. Most cars see the top of 4th near the 1320 mark, so that means a full 3rd gear pull or a partial 4th gear. If you balk at the cost of rubber, you can get a new lenso+M&H set for the same price as a long dyno session.
The main thing to look out for is agressive timing. A street car rarely needs to be on the knife-edge of detonation, especially considering the variations of pump gas. Hell, there's even a difference between filling up in the morning and evening from the same place.
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From: Mid atlantic
Re: is dyno tuning really necessary? (civicdxtyper)
If you want the engine to last, Yes, it is absolutly necessary. Street tuning is ok, but you cant control for all the variables, In short you get a more "on point" tune with a dyno. I highly reccomend seeing a dyno.
Re: (Jim Truett)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Jim Truett »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Notice how uneven the maps are. There was not enough load on the engine to cause audible detonation, so this tuner didn't retard the timing in boost properly. Also the fuel values were way off. Once he hit the freeway, I would assume it was 13:1 to 13.5:1 in boost based on comparisons with my original tune for his car.</TD></TR></TABLE>
ouch.. those screen shots hurt my eyes.
Notice how uneven the maps are. There was not enough load on the engine to cause audible detonation, so this tuner didn't retard the timing in boost properly. Also the fuel values were way off. Once he hit the freeway, I would assume it was 13:1 to 13.5:1 in boost based on comparisons with my original tune for his car.</TD></TR></TABLE>
ouch.. those screen shots hurt my eyes.
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From: Dont Steal My Car, Ct, USA
Re: (93turbo16)
thats the kid with the built LS, cable LSD trans, Red EG hacth, kept blowing every built motor.
Sucks, its like getting scammed when getting a shitty tune, Its happened to me and its not cool, u feel so violated.lol
Sucks, its like getting scammed when getting a shitty tune, Its happened to me and its not cool, u feel so violated.lol
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Re: is dyno tuning really necessary? (Bseriescivic5)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Bseriescivic5 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If you want the engine to last, Yes, it is absolutly necessary. Street tuning is ok, but you cant control for all the variables, In short you get a more "on point" tune with a dyno. I highly reccomend seeing a dyno.</TD></TR></TABLE>
what're these variables?
what're these variables?
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From: South Beach and Chicago, FL, USA
Street Tuning is for Partial Throttle.
Try Tuning a 350+whp Car on the Street. I've been almost killed way too many times.
Have Fun, I'm not trying to Die...so the Dyno it is.
Street Tuning Full Throttle is for Slow Cars...End of Thread.
Try Tuning a 350+whp Car on the Street. I've been almost killed way too many times.
Have Fun, I'm not trying to Die...so the Dyno it is.
Street Tuning Full Throttle is for Slow Cars...End of Thread.
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From: glendale, az, usa
Re: is dyno tuning really necessary? (civicdxtyper)
honistly yes you can do a street tune. you can get it to run perfect and pull hard as expletive. i had my car street tuned for a lil over a year and a half and 12,000 miles. i thot everything was perfect and it started smoking real bad..
i pulled the motor last night and found this.
will i street tune again. NO!
i was only running 7lbs of boost. had a wideband in my car at all times.
i pulled the motor last night and found this.
will i street tune again. NO!
i was only running 7lbs of boost. had a wideband in my car at all times.
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Re: (Suprdave)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Suprdave »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Street Tuning is for Partial Throttle.
Try Tuning a 350+whp Car on the Street. I've been almost killed way too many times.
Have Fun, I'm not trying to Die...so the Dyno it is.
Street Tuning Full Throttle is for Slow Cars...End of Thread.</TD></TR></TABLE>
LOL!
Try Tuning a 350+whp Car on the Street. I've been almost killed way too many times.
Have Fun, I'm not trying to Die...so the Dyno it is.
Street Tuning Full Throttle is for Slow Cars...End of Thread.</TD></TR></TABLE>
LOL!
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From: Hillburn, NY, USA
Re: is dyno tuning really necessary? (advert)
seriously...your motor lasted that long and you are going to blame that on getting a street tune versus a dyno tune? ha!
it could have been SOOOOO many different variables that caused that to your piston and I can almost guarantee that because it was tuned on the street wasnt one of them
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by advert »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">honistly yes you can do a street tune. you can get it to run perfect and pull hard as expletive. i had my car street tuned for a lil over a year and a half and 12,000 miles. i thot everything was perfect and it started smoking real bad..
i pulled the motor last night and found this.
[img][/img]
will i street tune again. NO!
i was only running 7lbs of boost. had a wideband in my car at all times.</TD></TR></TABLE>
it could have been SOOOOO many different variables that caused that to your piston and I can almost guarantee that because it was tuned on the street wasnt one of them
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by advert »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">honistly yes you can do a street tune. you can get it to run perfect and pull hard as expletive. i had my car street tuned for a lil over a year and a half and 12,000 miles. i thot everything was perfect and it started smoking real bad..
i pulled the motor last night and found this.
[img][/img]
will i street tune again. NO!
i was only running 7lbs of boost. had a wideband in my car at all times.</TD></TR></TABLE>
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From: glendale, az, usa
Re: is dyno tuning really necessary? (xenocron)
you dont think it helped at all? you dont think that when it was street tuned that maybe the timing was way off and could have caused this? do you truely think it was 100% truely not relatied?
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From: Hillburn, NY, USA
Re: is dyno tuning really necessary? (advert)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by advert »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">you dont think it helped at all? you dont think that when it was street tuned that maybe the timing was way off and could have caused this? do you truely think it was 100% truely not relatied?</TD></TR></TABLE>
if the timing was WAY off...it would have happened much sooner than that
you could have gotten a bad tank of gas...
if the timing was WAY off...it would have happened much sooner than that
you could have gotten a bad tank of gas...
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From: Lemont, IL, USA
Re: is dyno tuning really necessary? (xenocron)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by xenocron »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
if the timing was WAY off...it would have happened much sooner than that
you could have gotten a bad tank of gas...</TD></TR></TABLE>
Woah there! Don't try to use common sense and well thought out logic on this board.
Try to let your emotions take ahold of you and blame your problems on a remote factor. Jeez, this is Honda-Tech after all. Not everyoneherehasanobelprizeintuning.com .
if the timing was WAY off...it would have happened much sooner than that
you could have gotten a bad tank of gas...</TD></TR></TABLE>
Woah there! Don't try to use common sense and well thought out logic on this board.
Try to let your emotions take ahold of you and blame your problems on a remote factor. Jeez, this is Honda-Tech after all. Not everyoneherehasanobelprizeintuning.com .
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From: glendale, az, usa
Re: is dyno tuning really necessary? (xenocron)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by xenocron »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
if the timing was WAY off...it would have happened much sooner than that
you could have gotten a bad tank of gas...</TD></TR></TABLE>
idk.
i just relized i put one extra zero on those miles also
it was like 1,200
i hardly drove the car as you can see.
if the timing was WAY off...it would have happened much sooner than that
you could have gotten a bad tank of gas...</TD></TR></TABLE>
idk.
i just relized i put one extra zero on those miles also
it was like 1,200
i hardly drove the car as you can see.
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From: glendale, az, usa
Re: is dyno tuning really necessary? (xenocron)
driving is for ******.
haha i somehow always get out of driving its nice.
and during the summer my car does not get drove at all no matter what
F black leather and 130 out
haha i somehow always get out of driving its nice.
and during the summer my car does not get drove at all no matter what
F black leather and 130 out
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From: Hillburn, NY, USA
Re: is dyno tuning really necessary? (advert)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by advert »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">driving is for ******.
haha i somehow always get out of driving its nice.
and during the summer my car does not get drove at all no matter what
F black leather and 130 out</TD></TR></TABLE>
I think your car got madd at you and decided to poop out a ringland
haha i somehow always get out of driving its nice.
and during the summer my car does not get drove at all no matter what
F black leather and 130 out</TD></TR></TABLE>
I think your car got madd at you and decided to poop out a ringland
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From: Richmond, Va, usa
Re: (Jim Truett)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Jim Truett »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">It depends on the Dyno being used, but I generally say no. I prefer to do the initial tune on real world loads that the vehicle will only ever see on the street. Then go over the timing and possible cam gear adjustments on the dyno.
The following pictures are the map from a customer's car that I was unavailable to tune, so he went to another "reputable" tuner. His engine melted all four 9.5:1 84mm bore CP pistons on the way home from the dyno session.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Woh thats ugly. I've had a few customers come to me with **** like that before
The following pictures are the map from a customer's car that I was unavailable to tune, so he went to another "reputable" tuner. His engine melted all four 9.5:1 84mm bore CP pistons on the way home from the dyno session.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Woh thats ugly. I've had a few customers come to me with **** like that before
