vladd

i have a 99 gsr with a t3/t4 turbo and i'm getting it tuned sometime in the next few weeks. the motor is all stock. i'm wondering if dyno tuning is worth the money? obviously street tuning will correct the a/f ratios. the guy that i'm thinking of going through says that its not necessary for a stock engine; that dyno tuning is only to adjust ignition timing and vtec crossover, both of which don't really need to be adjusted (according to him). so, i just want your guys' opinions; is dyno tuning worth the ~$300 extra?

Reedy

OMG! I would run as far away from the guy your thinking about tunning your car and hide from him. I dont consider dyno tuning an option, its more of a requirement(espcially if your going FI) Not only will it be safer for you engine, but IMO you will get much better results.

Finland

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by civicdxtyper &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> that dyno tuning is only to adjust ignition timing </TD></TR></TABLE>

ONLY?

You say that as if ignition timing is some needless little thing.

The answer is that if you want shitty results, then street tuning is fine.

If you want a properly calibrated ECU, then definitely dyno tune.

adseguy

meh, they have there points but if you are looking for under 250whp on a B series engine then street tuning will be just fine. Ignition timing is VERY important though it just won't be as fine tuned as on a dyno. As long as the tuner is compentant enough to create steady ~~12.0 AFR's and knows what safe timing is you'll be fine.

On 2 street tunes that later went to a dyno I was only 2* and 3* off of correct timing, which in my mind was pretty much perfect so it's not that hard to get it pretty close.

locash

If you feel that "3 degrees off timing" is perfect, you're nuts. 3 degrees extra ignition advance can be detrimental to an engine.

SOHC_MShue

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by locash &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If you feel that "3 degrees off timing" is perfect, you're nuts. 3 degrees extra ignition advance can be detrimental to an engine. </TD></TR></TABLE>
he is probably talking about 2-3 degrees retarded if he is keeping the base tunes on the safe side

I agree with everyone that dyno tuning is very important to get a proper calibration. I really dont like just tuning cars on the street and not the dyno unless i have to.

adseguy

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SOHC_MShue &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
he is probably talking about 2-3 degrees retarded if he is keeping the base tunes on the safe side

I agree with everyone that dyno tuning is very important to get a proper calibration. I really dont like just tuning cars on the street and not the dyno unless i have to.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Correct I was 2 and 3* on the retarded side. 2-3* advanced would be VERY close to detonation.

Topdawgg

its not necessary, no... I ran my car all year with stock ignition timing and just the A/F street tuned

worked awesome and made DECENT power.. but nowhere near the potential of the motor/turbo setup...

Run away from that tuner for one, and 2, get it tuned, you will love it

sneakypete

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by civicdxtyper &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i have a 99 gsr with a t3/t4 turbo and i'm getting it tuned sometime in the next few weeks. the motor is all stock. i'm wondering if dyno tuning is worth the money? obviously street tuning will correct the a/f ratios. the guy that i'm thinking of going through says that its not necessary for a stock engine; that dyno tuning is only to adjust ignition timing and vtec crossover, both of which don't really need to be adjusted (according to him). so, i just want your guys' opinions; is dyno tuning worth the ~$300 extra?</TD></TR></TABLE>

For a street driven car a street tune is well worth the money. The tuner will able to tune the car is real world conditions. I would personally do both. Have him street tune the car then dyno tune it last. It should only take about 30 minutes to an hour to make any other adjusts on the dyno. Goodluck.

doood

iTrader: (1)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Topdawgg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">its not necessary, no... I ran my car all year with stock ignition timing and just the A/F street tuned

worked awesome and made DECENT power.. but nowhere near the potential of the motor/turbo setup...

Run away from that tuner for one, and 2, get it tuned, you will love it</TD></TR></TABLE>

that's still tuning

Drkaccrd

if your running off the wastegate at 7psi with an FPR and you dont care about smooth driving just the mere fact that your boosting and dont plan on driving it hard then sure dont tune it...................but i do recommend doing so with a good tuner...

093turbo16

iTrader: (2)

Honestly, as long as you have a competant tuner, a street tune for a basic setup will be just fine.

But the obvious answer is, if you want the most power out of the motor.. Get it on the dyno.

njn63

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 93turbo16 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Honestly, as long as you have a competant tuner, a street tune for a basic setup will be just fine.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Pretty much. From what that guy said though i wouldn't think he's competent so i'd be looking for a different tuner.

0xenocron

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 93turbo16 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Honestly, as long as you have a competant tuner, a street tune for a basic setup will be just fine.

But the obvious answer is, if you want the most power out of the motor.. Get it on the dyno. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Agreed...for a $1500 total, ~250 hp setup, the 5 peak horsepower you might get by adjusting the timing on the dyno to MBT int worth the dyno time IMO.

Because I dont own my own dyno, I usually try to get the customer to come for a basic street tune first. Here you can work out all of the little kinks you find the first time tuning a fresh setup and lay down a good foundation. Keep the boost down and keep the timing conservative. I tell them if they want a finer tune done on a dyno...then we can schedule another day for that and diminish the actual time on the dyno renting it at $100-$125 an hour.

I hate working out bugs and problems while the customer is racking up a dyno bill...

If you are a tuner and you own your own dyno, the story is a little different...

093turbo16

iTrader: (2)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by xenocron &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I hate working out bugs and problems while the customer is racking up a dyno bill...

If you are a tuner and you own your own dyno, the story is a little different...</TD></TR></TABLE>

Honestly couldn't of said better as we are in the same situation

Tony the Tiger

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by locash &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If you feel that "3 degrees off timing" is perfect, you're nuts. 3 degrees extra ignition advance can be detrimental to an engine. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Well, that would depend on the power output of the engine... I doubt a 220 WHP turbo Honda with 9.0:1 CR will have huge drastic changes with 3 deg of timing, especially a timing retard.

WFboostinEK

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by locash &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If you feel that "3 degrees off timing" is perfect, you're nuts. 3 degrees extra ignition advance can be detrimental to an engine. </TD></TR></TABLE>

What he said...

blackeg

i gained 36 hp and 32 ftlbs from about an hour and a half dyno tuning. for the 200 something bucks it cost thats a lot of power to be had in my opinion, plus i knew the engine was running optimally and safely

Tony the Tiger

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by blackeg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i gained 36 hp and 32 ftlbs from about an hour and a half dyno tuning. for the 200 something bucks it cost thats a lot of power to be had in my opinion, plus i knew the engine was running optimally and safely</TD></TR></TABLE>


Remember, power gain is one thing, but necessity is another. Don't get them confused

vladd

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Drkaccrd &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">if your running off the wastegate at 7psi with an FPR and you dont care about smooth driving just the mere fact that your boosting and dont plan on driving it hard then sure dont tune it...................but i do recommend doing so with a good tuner...</TD></TR></TABLE>

you know what i really hate? when someone only reads the topic without reading the actual post, and goes off into a rant about something that has nothing to do with my question. don't reply if you can't read first.


but anyway, i'm pretty sure i'm just going to go ahead with the dyno tuning. it's not that the guy can't do it; he can, and has before. it's that he said it might not be worth the money. however, gaining 5-10 hp will be worth it to me. the a/f will be street tuned regardless of whether i dyno it or not btw. only thing get adjusted on the dyno will be the ignition timing.

093turbo16

iTrader: (2)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by civicdxtyper &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
but anyway, i'm pretty sure i'm just going to go ahead with the dyno tuning. it's not that the guy can't do it; he can, and has before. it's that he said it might not be worth the money. however, gaining 5-10 hp will be worth it to me. the a/f will be street tuned regardless of whether i dyno it or not btw. only thing get adjusted on the dyno will be the ignition timing.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Sounds like a plan to me. And you get to have your car on the dyno.

Drkaccrd

you know what I really hate? when someone posts a topic and the intial post doesnt coincide with it. your topic is for the most part your question. why post a topic if it isnt going to coincide with your post? I did ultimately answer your question. dont tune if you dont care about drivabilty. tune it for drivabilty,reliabilty and max power.


Modified by Drkaccrd at 9:49 AM 1/19/2007

093turbo16

iTrader: (2)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Drkaccrd &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">you know what I really hate? when someone posts a topic and the intial post doesnt coincide with it. your topic is for the most part your question dumbass. why post a topic if it isnt going to coincide with your post? I did ultimately answer your question. dont tune if you dont care about drivabilty. tune it for drivabilty,reliabilty and max power. </TD></TR></TABLE>


Did you seriously read the post before posting either one of the responses?

His topic was asked to see if street tuning was enough.

And last time I checked, you can get perfect drivability and still be reliable from just a street tune. Sure you can pick up a few HP on the dyno, and his question was, Is it really worth it.

fast2camciv

ok, guess its time for me to chime in here....I AM THE TUNER.

this is what i suggested to civicdxtyper...street tune the car for sure. i can nail down the a/f's and set timing somewhat conservative, set the car up for driveability, and reliability. and it was up to him we could dyno tune it as well, after the street tune. and yes i told him that really the only thing that needs done on the dyno is timing, and vtec crossover (we all know that there is more than that, but with a good street tune, those things are the main points, the rest is just cleanup)

do i recomend a dyno tune for what he wants? meh, its really up to him, im 100% confident his car will be in top running condition after a street tune, if he is after that last 10whp from a dyno tune (wich it sounds like he is) then so be it, we can do it. but in my honest opinion a 250-300whp stock block gsr setup, street tuning is more than enough (if done by someone that knows wtf there doing)...is that last 10whp worth the 300 bucks he's going to pay for a dyno tune??? depends...my money is better spent elswhere but different strokes for different folks...if he wants it dyno tuned, ill do it and ill get every last whp i can out of it too.

so to bash on me and say he needs a new tuner is pretty harsh. i have my opinions about what cars and when a car needs dyno tuned (just as everyone does), but thats just my opinion....he asked for my opinion and i gave it to him...if he wants me to dyno tune it, then so be it....its his money he can spend it how he wants...and regardless of where i tune it, i will do the best job i possibly can in order to make him happy.

093turbo16

iTrader: (2)

I think most of the people that actually tune cars agree with you in this thread. I probably would've handled it the exact same way. I like to street tune cars, and then if they want dyno time, then that is their call.

But I do refuse to street tune anything that is over 350 whp. It is pointless, that is the only time I full encourage dyno tuning.