Mase

i recently retuned a car that previously put down mid 500's.

im not gonna release too much of his setup, per his request.

but i will say this

its a b series w/ a t3/t67 turbo

previously with gsr cams and skunk2 IM, the car made mid 500's

he brought it back with larger injectors, and the only other thing he changed out was the gsr cams to ITR cams and the skunk2 intake manifold changed out to a JG.

and the results:



I did these results in uncorrected form so the correction factor is 1.00

the boost levels were pretty close to the same right around 28 psi....within about a half psi. the gsr cam run actually ran about a half psi more than the itr cam run.

however, the only other variable is this. the intake temps were about 15 degrees cooler the day we retuned with ITR cams... so naturally the car will make slightly more power due to the cooler air...

but not 100 whp worth

so now you know why i recommend ITR and CTR cams.

and the JG helps too

KeyserSoze

nice comparison.

Calvinator

nice! im glad i got a JG IM.

BlueShadow

Those are some nice numbers...I'm still itching to see some comparisons of GSR/ITR/CTR vs big NA cams like Skunk2, Crane or Comp cams. I'm thinking about getting a set of Comp stg 3 cams to see how well they like boost. hehehe

Arturbo

good job. I like how you put all the info before everyone asked for it like the correction factor....lol

KeyserSoze

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by BlueShadow &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Those are some nice numbers...I'm still itching to see some comparisons of GSR/ITR/CTR vs big NA cams like Skunk2, Crane or Comp cams. I'm thinking about getting a set of Comp stg 3 cams to see how well they like boost. hehehe</TD></TR></TABLE>

I will be running crane stg 2 cams in my turbo setup. They are actually supposed to be n/a cams, but the specs are quite close to itr cams.

BlueShadow

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by KeyserSoze &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I will be running crane stg 2 cams in my turbo setup. They are actually supposed to be n/a cams, but the specs are quite close to itr cams. </TD></TR></TABLE>

w00t! I was thinking about running Comp S3 or maybe S2S3's for mine.

martinscott

great info!! finally a worthy post for h-tech!!

RobbieG35

Nice Mase Any cam gear adjustments? and also were they 97-98 cams or 00-01?

turbotypeR@SPEC

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by HybridHatch88 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Nice Mase Any cam gear adjustments? and also were they 97-98 cams or 00-01? </TD></TR></TABLE>
ditto

m R g S r

nOice
now i think people are gonna be trying out some HUGE lift and duration cams for their turbo setups.....

seen4ever

i assume just a stock skunk2 IM, not a ported one or anything?

i wish i would have dynoed my car before & after CTR cams. The buttdyno showed it was quiet impressive in the top end from what the GSR cams did. I swear spool up was faster as well.

i keep wondering if i should change from my ported skunk2 to a JG but i guess i'll see what the new setup does and then decide.

RobbieG35

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jerseykid609 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">so mase would you always suggest ITR cams for turbosetups or just for cars that inspire to make over 500? I always hear talk about how ITR's are the best now and gsr's are yesterdays news, when i know gsrs still a good up to a point in terms of making hp </TD></TR></TABLE>

That is what I have always wondered. Are there any dyno charts of semi-stock motors with a cam swap like this one? I wonder if the same results would have happened on a 300 whp car?


Modified by HybridHatch88 at 9:28 AM 12/6/2005

Erik B

Nice, I'll be getting a JG Intake mani here really soon but sticking with the GSR cams for now i think. Good post tho thanks for the info

m R g S r

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by HybridHatch88 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

That is what I have always wondered. Are there any dyno charts of semi-stock motors with a cam swap like this one? I wonder if the same results would have happened on a 300 whp car?


Modified by HybridHatch88 at 9:28 AM 12/6/2005</TD></TR></TABLE>

well im going to tune on my stock block ls vtec soon....and when i get some $$ ill go to R cams (currently have gsrs). i will post before and after when the time comes..(dont hold your breath....may be a while)

stackz

I'm curious as to how much those larger injectors influenced the additional power gain seen by the cams/intake.

cuin9sec

GSR cams are good enough for me. ive seen over 800whp on them.

G"UNIT

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by HybridHatch88 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Nice Mase Any cam gear adjustments? and also were they 97-98 cams or 00-01? </TD></TR></TABLE>


I will be running GSR cams for now, but i think i will be making a switch. That is impressive numbers. What turbo manifold was he running?

g2turbo

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by stackz &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'm curious as to how much those larger injectors influenced the additional power gain seen by the cams/intake.</TD></TR></TABLE>

The injectors just supply fuel for the added power if im not mistaken. They don't "make" power.

stackz

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by g2turbo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

The injectors just supply fuel for the added power if im not mistaken. They don't "make" power.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

exactly but by being able to supply extra fuel, you're able to run additional timing that you couldnt previously. that and as an injector reaches its maximum duty cycle the spray pattern will being to distort.

just little things. I just like to see comparisons where things are changed one at a time is all. But for what was changed, this was one hell of a power jump. I'm just curious if the larger injectors say...helped it hit 100 extra hp where-as without them it may have just been say 50 or so?? hmmm

BlueShadow

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by stackz &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'm curious as to how much those larger injectors influenced the additional power gain seen by the cams/intake.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Moving to larger injectors doesn't make more power in itself. You can just reach higher horsepower numbers with larger injectors.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by t67civic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">GSR cams are good enough for me. ive seen over 800whp on them. </TD></TR></TABLE>

You said the same thing in the GSC motorsports camshaft thread and I think b16sedan answered it best when he replied "Sticking with the status quo is a good way to fall behind in technology." In Mase's example we have an increase of 100HP, and 45TQ at the same amount of boost granted weather conditions weren't exactly the same, but that's still quite an increase.

The reason I find all this interesting is because I wont have to run a lot of boost to meet my power goal. It means I can run slightly less boost pressure, but I just have to go with a more aggressive cam.

11psiTurboSI

Nice comparison Mase

mrbsponge

fortunately for me, i just did the exact same swap cams and manifold too.

i have been telling people forever, ITR CTR cams like to be revved, as well as most of our turbos.

M.A.R.C.

::searches frantically for ITR/CTR cams::

wow i'm impressed . i too went from a skank2 intake manifold to a JG, just need to swap cams.

Mase

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by HybridHatch88 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Nice Mase Any cam gear adjustments? and also were they 97-98 cams or 00-01? </TD></TR></TABLE>

No, we didnt choose to make any cam gear adjustments.

i have a feeling we could have made more power, but time didnt permit (plus lack of cut valve cover as well)

we also maxed out the injectors at that static fuel pressure, so we couldnt have gone much farther anyways

the cams were the 2001 itr or ctr cams and both intake manifolds were completely stock


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jerseykid609 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">so mase would you always suggest ITR cams for turbosetups or just for cars that inspire to make over 500? I always hear talk about how ITR's are the best now and gsr's are yesterdays news, when i know gsrs still a good up to a point in terms of making hp </TD></TR></TABLE>

GSR's still make good power, ive made 600 + on gsr's and plenty of people have made way more than that.

however, ive found the 2001 ITRs (ctrs) just work that much better.

even at low boost...

for instance, most stock gsr motors w/ a simple drag 3 kit make around 270-280 at 9 psi (with a small turbo). we swapped out CTR cams and added a skunk2 intake mani at the same boost level and ended up making 325.

it all depends on how you wanna do things.

many things work, some work better than others...

in this particular case, the owner spent about 600 bucks and got 100 whp.

to someone not needing as much power as possible, they could spend that 600 bucks on something else..

we about maxed out 880's the first time, now we maxed out 1000cc's. either we are going to up the fuel pressure and watch the walbro carefully, or upgrade further (better idea) but more costly. and no swapping out to a larger injector doesnt add any type of power, so lets squash that rumor right now.

i wish i had more time to test other cams out... but i dont like the crower turbo cams, they are junk, stock gsr's made more then the ones ive tested....


lastly, i havent had the time to really sit down and do a bunch of testing..
id love to have the time, i have some great ideas to try, but i just have other things going on in my life that dont allow me to be a grease monkey all the time, haha.