cylndRPressure

Hello all, Well as you see I am a new member. I just recently decided to try and tinker and build one of these hondas. I am a older guy (35) been in to v8's all my life with an exception of some imports here and there. I go to the track regualrly and been seeing alot more of the imports really hual'in ***. So i said why not see what these things are all about. I have been doing research for some time and gathered somethings so far for a build but would like to get opinions on somethings on the setup. I was talking to some locals with b16 motors they mentioned to me that the b16 is a very good motor to start to boost only lacking it the shorter stroke which lacks tq. I figured "hey gotta skimp here to gain there". So i decided to give the b16 a shot. They say that the blocks are able to go to about 500hp no problems with basic upgrades. I find this very interesting with such small displacement! anyway on to what i got and maybe others can point me in a good direction.. ps are there any others here over 30 that likes to play with these things ? lol

My setup... so far i got a b16 engine with a block guard. a tubular ramhorn i think they call it. a 255 walbro fuel pump, 1000cc injectors, crower I beam rods, weisco forged pistons, stock b16 head, 50mm blow off, a borge warner s256 turbo.

Not to may parts but a start. I would like to get this little guy around 550whp and see what kinda fun i can have. What are some TRIED AND TRUE setups people are running to achieve this kinda power? are there particular cams people use? intake manifolds? head work? the car is gonna see the track every now and again but really gearing for a fun streetcar . any info would be great and is appreciated.
Thanks
Walt

tuck1crx

hey walt,

im only 21 but do a bit of tinkering. in not gunna tell you how to build your motor just some direction and tips. as far as cam's go: almost nothing can beat a type r cam for the buck. intake: something larger like a preformer X or victor X will do great with a 70 or 72mm throttle body on it, head work and valve train is where you wanna spend some money. stiff springs and lights retainors will help alot, and a port with a nice 3 or 5 angle valve job is good.

one thing you said that worries my is the block guard. have it installed and tack welded in place PRIOR to the bore and hone.

some good companies you can look at are skunk2, blox, tail, HKS, garret, turbonetics, hondata, RC.

and please do yourself a favor and stay away from ebay junk

if you have any other questions feel free to ask or PM (personal message) me

cylndRPressure

Tuck, Thank you for some info. As for ebay parts never never! you do get what you pay for there! The type R cam which cam do you speak of? intake cam or exhaust cam? From what i understand the type r honda cars are also DOHC so they drop right in huh? As for the intake these little motors need that much air?! if so these little guys can breath! I do plan on doing head work seeing even in the v8 world alot of gains can be made just in head work alone. I did forget to mention I did pick up the hondata S300 ecu with the usb cable that goes in the side. Some of the people locally here seem to be steering me in the right direction so far. I also am looking in to a sleeved block buy Golden Eagle but I stumbled upon a thread alittle bit ago people saying that when they get the blocks done they have distortion and have pay even more money to fix them. That is something that I do NOT want to go through.

What is the major hurtle to these motors to get them to around 500+ hp. The heads? bottom ends?

jfoster

iTrader: (1)

Yes, all vtec dohc Bseries cams are interchangeable and ITRs are more aggressive. For 500+whp you might consider having the motor sleeved, but there are people making that kind of power on stock sleeves.

Do you have a tuner picked out? Are you planning to run E85? Are you building the motor yourself?

Hopefully TheShodan or another turbo guru will chime in on your turbo choice. You might also check out what other people are using on their B16 set ups, many posted here -> https://honda-tech.com/forums/showth...&highlight=b16 And many others have there own threads here in the FI forum. Check out the search feature, and at the top of the forum there are "stickies" such as the tuner directory and FAQ which may also be helpful.

cylndRPressure

Thats a good to know about the cams that makes things alittle easier! I do have a tuner picked out I was referred to him from a local guy at the track. His name is Dave Blundell from TPR in Cincinnati i think it is. As for fuel goes we dont have access to e85 here in town closest station that sells it is 40 miles away that would consist of me storing it here at the house in drums. That was a option but im unclear on how well that fuel holds up being stored. I also have been poking around with the search also found a few things on the b16 motors some interesting stuff there for sure! Im just looking for guidance more then any thing. I am going to assemble the motor my self. I am very particular on clearances and tolerances on motors I'm confidant in my abilities on that but deciding on what type of parts are neeeded to get to the goal is what i am ultimately seeking. Not so much brands more like you wil need cams, sleeves,etc etc

tuck1crx

the the type r is also a vtec b series so both cams will drop right in. get the set.

all of our power comes from us being able to breath.

sleeves: darton makes some of the best sleeves around. it depends alot on who you have install them. once a sleeved block is done that bottom end is bullet proof. the b16 runs a free standing cylinder wall so that is the week point. and also with sleeves some people run into cooling problems.

S300 is in my opinion the best engine management, just as long as u have a reputable tuner tune it for you

ADD ON: with a properly installed (not tap in and go) block guard u will be able to hold 500HP. its been done

jfoster

iTrader: (1)

I would suggest you take a look at this engine build article as there are some significant differences in building Honda motors vs. domestics.

Ls_dx

iTrader: (5)

Sounds like a good build. If you have any GSR cams those are good too. DOnt have to spend alot of $$

E85 is recommended! I have to drive 1 hr each way to get it JUST DO IT

see my sig for setup

Tootsie7944

If you plan on running the street I assume you will be running pump gas. If you are running pump gas I wouldn't try for over 450-500 whp.

There are a lot of little things you need to make sure you know about when doing this. Dumb stuff like needing a a resistor box if you run peak and hold injectors. Don't forget an oil restrictor on your turbo. Garrett turbos need to have coolant feed and return lines ran to them, etc. Ton's of other BS stuff.

You may need to think about axles, suspension, motor mounts, gaskets, fuel rails, etc. You need to make sure you have brakes that will stop a 500 hp car. What clutch and flywheel you will run to hold the power. Aeromotive A1000 Fuel pressure regulator is awesome.

Here is my build when I made 565 whp on pump gas. Lasted 3.5 years without any issues and then a piston ring took a ****. I do my own work so other than the machine shop work to bore and hone the cylinders .5mm over it was a cheap fix. Keep in mind heat is your biggest enemy. Build your motor around your cooling system, not the other way around.

Darton Sleeves 84.5mm bore x 89 mm stroke
ERL MID kit
9:1 CP Pistons
Manley Rods
Ferrera Competition Plus Valve Train w/ TI retainers, bronze valve guides
LS Crank Micropolished and balanced
Skunk 2 Pro 1 cams
FullRace AC Kit
GT3582r
Portflow PnP head
Edelbrock intake manifold port matched to the TB
RPM services 72 mm throttle body
Injector Dynamics 1000 cc saturdated injectors (RC 1000's are junk)
Thermal R&D 3" exhaust
Tial 50 mm BOV
Tial 44 mm wastegate
T1 Racedevelopment Catch Can

The most important thing is your TUNER and tuning software. Hondata S300 is great.

tuck1crx

-the whole turbo setup
-adjustable cam gears
-some 800+ CC injectors.
-ignition i.e. msd ****
-traction i.e. LSD, traction bars
-harder motor mounts

LightningTeg

Man theres alot of misinformation in here.

A.) You dont need cams or headwork to make 500whp on a b16. But ITR cams will really help.
B.) An intake manifold would help but not necessary either.
C.) You dont need headwork. Im making over 500 on my stock LS head with no port work on PUMP GAS (93)
D.) Block guards are terrible so get rid of that idea immediatley. They have been proven to cause sleeve failure more often then not. You're better off with just stock sleeves, however getting ductile iron sleeves put in will give you piece of mind (Benson, Darton, Golden eagle to name a few).
E.) Usually only ball bearing turbos require water cooling
F.) There are many tuning options but use what your tuner is comfortable with. They are pretty much the same at the core of it
G.) you dont need adjustable cam gears, or traction bars (LSD would be alot more helpful).
H.) Stock ignition and fuel setup aside from the injectors and fuel pump is proven to be fine upwards of 600whp.


And don't let numbers fool you. 500whp in any Honda is a stupid about amount of power.

Good luck

Tootsie7944

a) Type R cams are great, but if he has money, Skunk 2 pro 1's make A LOT more power with less PSI. Ask me how I know.
b)Agreed
c)Agreed, but if he does cams he will need the valve train to support the cam (assuming anything other than OEM).
d)Agreed.
e)Not sure if that was directed at me, but I purposely said Garrett since it is ball bearing and a lot of noobs will forget.
f)Agreed.
g)If you go with aftermarket cams, adjustable cam gears can pick up 15-30 whp sometimes with a good tuner. If you're drag racing you are going to want a trans w/ a LSD
h)Agreed...still have stock lines on 600 whp on pump gas

Ls_dx

iTrader: (5)

This build will make more power with Gsr/R cams with stock gears set dead nuts.
Dont go for big all motor cams on a small bore/small turbo build.

KISS. (keep it simple stupid)

cylndRPressure

Thanks for the fast replys. I have been cruising the site for about a couple hours now and seen and read alot of interesting information.. Somethings that seem to be debating here in are things such as port work, cams and intake manifolds. I know i have to get my mind OFF v'8 where intake manifolds and head work are big power gains with other supporting things ofcourse

Somethings we hope we can come to a sense able conclusion on. I know everyone does eveything different and has other ways going about things. Type R cams seem to be the agreeable things here.. intake manifold is the debatable thing. Aswell as turbo. The Turbo I have is a Borg Warner s356 alot of local guys recommended it and i know a guy running it on a ls1 and had nothing but good to say about it. Most of them i seen were on smaller displacement motors (smaller then 2.0l) I noticed they have some serious fast top end power and mph in them littler cars!

Another agreement is sleeves over block guard. I can see where the block guard can cause some problems. So i am going to do some digging on some sleeves.

As for fuel system will the stock likes go to 500+hp? I have a 255 pump will that surfice? lets debate on those.

-so far we seem to unequally agree the type r cams are improvements
-motor should be sleeved

LightningTeg

Not all garretts are ball bearing.

Ls_dx

iTrader: (5)

stock lines will probably support 500 hp on gasoline

are you gonna run e85?

cylndRPressure

Regretfully I dont have any close sources to e85. I do however have the ability to get 110 race fuel here locally so thats a plus!

Ls_dx

iTrader: (5)

e85 is greater than 110

spoolin turbo s

how do you figure?

jfoster

iTrader: (1)

Last I read it was around 105 ??

2k.civic.si

IF you get the block sleeved stay away from golden eagle. Use ERL/Benson by far the best out there. http://www.laskeyracing.com/shop/bseries.htm

spoolin turbo s

thats what i was thinking

i guess some think the cooling benefits are worth the extra 5 points of octane

cylndRPressure

I stumbled across the thread about Golden eagle and some guys getting there block back all messed up. I dont want to deal with that. I am making sure to stay away from that all that!

on a side note

As for the e85 goes, either way i dont have easy access to it. So it would be unethical to run a car on e85 when i have to drive 45 min there to get it and then 45 min back... or stock it in drums which i dont know how well that fuel would keep after sitting for a period of time.

I have decided that i am going to do the sleeved block ..been looking around at sleeving company's. I was leaning towards AEBS or darton..

Ls_dx

iTrader: (5)

How do I figure?
Personal experience.

It is under 3.00 a gallon, loves timing, burns cleaner, directly cools, doesnt KILL o2 sensors, and it smells cool

2k.civic.si

If it was my money I would use http://www.laskeyracing.com/shop/bseries.htm
or http://www.blueprintracing.com/shopexd.asp?id=1270